Brexit - 2nd Referendum - The (Bradford City FC) Peoples Vote

We can all see what is going on here, and it is not a pretty sight. Parliament looking to overthrow a Sovereign referendum. Perhaps they would like to take a minute and think about what happens next, and I am not talking about Brexit.

 

The referendum wasn't legally binding, however even as a remainer I think 'the will of the people' cannot be ignored.

However, it is the responsibility of Parliament to do this in a way which is most advantageous for the country in both the immediate short-term and also the longer term.

These debates should have been taking place 18 months ago.

 

Strange how we now have politicians from all parties (cross party ) putting a lot of effort in to getting brexit stopped/delayed, it really does make you wonder why these same cross party politicians couldn't do the same for the voters of this country who won a democratic vote to leave the EU and the Customs Union.

 

I agree but I'm not sure that it would have served their purpose to get involved 18 months ago, its been obvious from the moment the result was declared that many MPs were not happy with the outcome and would do all they could to stop brexit.
The best us leavers can hope for is the backstop can be triggered by the UK I believe that will be the best we could get, although she kept repeating in the Commons yesterday if we dont get a deal it will go to "no deal" which is the default option.

 

Agree, it was done differently last time. I am not in favour of referendums as they don’t deal with the what ifs scenarios. Nevertheless we were told that only one vote that the government would act on the result. We cannot stay in a customs union, or the single market, or accept jurisdiction of the EU law, that was made absolutely clear in the leaflet every household received. I voted to remain because I looked ahead and I knew our country would be split down the middle. However, democracy means more to me, without it and we are in danger of losing it if we don’t adhere to leaving as the ppl decided.

There is a growing clamour for a 2nd referendum; my questions are these.

1. How would we know that a second ref would settle the argument either way?
2. Who would decide which referendum was valid?
3. Democracy, if you explain to ppl that this was the only vote and no repeat, how on earth can you go back to the country and say, and again? Will this set a precedence?
4. The longer this goes on the more this country will suffer the divisions and split the country into fractions.

 

I think most of us are left without a party to please us, and will end up voting for a party just to keep the other bastards out....

 

We should let the remoaners win a second referendum and them smash 'em in the decider...(best of 3)...on away goals if necessary...

 

1. The question would be less vague - Stay or Mays Plan B - then parliament vote on it. If Mays deal then we leave on the date article 50 expires. If remain then we revoke article 50 and carry on its a status quo.
2. The 2016 ref was valid, we issued article 50 and voted on a deal. A further ref on the deal would also be valid. People need to stop thinking this is the same ref being held twice, its not.
3. Whatever the PM of the time says if he/she then resigns the words he/she said arent gospel. The new executive is the executive and whatever they say is what will be honoured until a new govt is voted in. The truth is democracy is harmed regardless of what happens. 48% of people will feel disenfranchised if we actually leave especially on No Deal. And 52% will if we have what they see as a re-run, especially if they lose. The sensible person, say an outsider, would say that more democracy isnt harmful to democracy. If the majority changes it is because there is a new majority.
4. There is a massive generational and demographic element to all of this. Its not a coincidence that the most vocal and numerous leave voter is old, white and male. You cant avoid that fact. Eventually their protests will diminish over time. But to leave the EU on a No Deal will see the breakup of the UK. It will go that far, undoubtedly.

 

Would a leave voter answer this question? Without any hatred please.

If our approach to the EU all these years was one like we had in our days of empire. To sieze control, to influence heavily and extract as much from it as we could for as little input as possible. Using the control we had over the EU to exert our influence around the world and not be bossed by the likes of USA, China and Russia.

If we had also had more input from the public - more public assemblies and more Question Time like TV debates as a nation on how we can benefit more from being in the EU.

With all of that, would you have voted differently?

That is my vision for being in the EU. Empire 2.0.

 

The EU is dying, Financially in huge debt, Has not published its accounts in years because no accountant can see the books or balance them because money just disappears, It will tighten its grip on its member states ever gaining more power from them until it controls all areas of each state, The real question is why would we want to stay in a corrupt organisation that has little democracy and demands more and more money from the UK, We may be the first but doubt will be the last, We have the chance of getting in the lifeboat and becoming free to make our own more prosperous future, The unrest is growing in the EU

 

little democracy?

on what basis? the eu executive is not elected but neither is the UK cabinet. we have 73 MEPs!!

 

Members of cabinet resign when things go wrong and parliament holds them to account, The executive may well be outvoted by fellow MPs,
Compare with your 75 MEPs or indeed the whole EU parliament where no one is held to account and cannot think of one MEP who has had or volunteered on a point of policy or principle to resign since its inception. Democracy is a word they laugh at in the EU

 

If you are going to say stuff like democracy is a word they laugh at then im not going to discuss it. Pretty childish thing to say and completely untrue

 

As you wish, You lost the argument anyway and have little understanding of grown up topics it is best you give up.

BTW when you see Juncker the unelected President of the EU taking the mickey out of a UK elected Prime Minister on worldwide TV and saying some insulting words about other elected members you do not think they are taking the piss out of elected politicians and laughing at them knowing they themselves will never have to face an election and cannot be removed? Bizzarre

 

Point 4 bemuses me somewhat. Its getting to the point where being an old white male is some of offence, like their views don’t count anymore.
I personally couldn’t give a shiny shite what happens with Brexit but this constant berating of white males, and particularly older ones, in the media is becoming tiresome. Believe it or not most of the ‘white malea’ in this world just want to get on with their lives instead of being made out to be the incarnation of the devil.

 

Don't you wish these young whippersnappers who are claiming we've voted away their future had got off the back side in numbers and used the right to make their point in the referendum vote, but as you say it's easier to bitch about this unfair result.
When this subject was originally brought up on C&B someone said then that it would never happen and the more and more I see of these lame MPs I do have my doubts, I mean MPs, union officials are at least making the effort to look interested, yet all we get out of Corbyn is "I will not discuss the brexit unless May takes no deal off the table" the only card she can play unless the back stop can be renegotiated.

 

If you are going to get insulting with your comments towards me then fine ill play the same way.

It seems your simple little mind, no doubt abound with conspiracy theories cant quite grasp the notion. The EU President is simply the chair of a supranational organisation. The name 'President' does not mean he has the same powers as Donald Trump or any of the Leaders of the nations within the EU.

The President of the European Commission is the head of the European Commission, the executive branch of the European Union. The President of the Commission leads a cabinet of Commissioners, referred to as the college, collectively accountable to the European Parliament, which is directly elected by EU citizens. So much for no democracy.

The European Commission (EC) is an institution of the European Union, responsible for proposing legislation, implementing decisions, upholding the EU treaties and managing the day-to-day business of the EU. Commissioners are proposed by the Council of the European Union, on the basis of suggestions made by the national governments, and then appointed by the European Council after the approval of the European Parliament.

The President has a 5 year term, fixed, with no power to extend or make him/herself the new Fuhrer of Europe. They have no power to directly tell national governments what to do with domestic affairs. They simply head an organisation that sets regulations that keep standards the same across the European Union. These standards are important in order to form and maintain a customs union.

Every week you see the LEADERS of each EU nation meeting up to finalise the brexit deal or discuss the negotiations. For any sensible person its clear to see that the true power lies in the hands of the national governments. The EU bureaucrats power is simply to manage and enact the policies laid down by the national governments. Just like the civil service.

But small minded people see it as being this terrible thing. Taking grandiose titles like 'President' and thinking that means they have actual power. What a gullible man you are that you actually feel threatened by that. Id feel like a fool if I was you.

Here ... take this tin foil hat!

 

Its just demographics, I wasnt saying that this group is full of bad people. Its hard not to notice this group and its influence, or do you disagree?

 

Sorry it wasn't aimed at you per se, more of a rant at hearing the same thing over and over again about old white people. Thing is people are wrongly assuming that somehow the 'old white male' vote was behind the dastardly vote to leave the EU and its the sinister undertones that the same people link this myth too to suit their own agenda. I voted to leave, my dad voted to leave. We are two 'old white males', well my Dad is and i'm not far behind these days. Yet we are then categorised and stereotyped without anyone actually knowing why we voted. You know the sort of thing, beer swilling, EDL supporting, working class spongers "It's all them bloody foreigners innit, taking our jobs and ruining our communities etc..."
As i mentioned i now couldn't care less what happened, i can't see into the future but i had a pretty good idea how this would turn out. And the politicians didn't disappoint.

I keep out of the Brexit debate now and i feel so much better for it.

 

You need to learn more about your beloved EU, No member of the commission or the President is directly elected, The commissioners are each APPOINTED by national member governments there is no election involved and certainly no democracy, The president is APPOINTED by a similar method and he is the figurehead of the EU, They run the EU but are never elected by any voter directly, The Parliament is elected and we do have a vote on our MEP but the Parliament has no law making powers of its own it need approval of the commission, The parliament has no power to initiate any laws only the commission can do that then send its recommendations for approval or otherwise, It does have budgetary oversight and does have the power to appoint or dismiss commissioners after discussion with member governments.
The amount of democracy is minimal
BTW You started the personal insults calling my comments although valid childish, I did not insult you in any way, you suggested giving up posting on the topic and I agreed it was best if you felt that way,
It is noticeable that you make no reply to the fact that The president of the EU made insulting comments about our Prime Minister and even she complained in a speech about the insults, making fun of her and lack of respect by the EU to a democratic leader of a nation that was a huge lack of respect , She is not the only one Juncker has a habit of this with other leaders he feels are below him or not doing as he wishes