Brexit - 2nd Referendum - The (Bradford City FC) Peoples Vote

He has always been a Euro Sceptic, don’t understand his stance.

 

Some will sell their souls to get power.

 

He doesn't particularly like the EU but doesn't want a brexit dictated and led by far right nationalist lunatics, as is currently happening and would leave the country in a far worse place. Believe it or not most people who voted Leave weren't voting for a No Deal Brexit or for May's pathetic deal but their own imagined version of Brexit. Pursuing either of those options would be entirely undemocratic.
A people's vote on the exit terms is the most democratic possible outcome now, clue is in the name.

 

All of that is irrelevant. Remain means one thing - remain in the EU, wherever that takes us in future. There was no ambiguity about voting remain.
Leave, however, can mean many things to different people, as we are seeing. You may be happy about a no deal brexit, but many others who voted to leave did not vote for no deal. A No Deal brexit is completely incompatible with (eg) a Norway+ brexit, yet both ideas were allowed to count the same in the referendum. That is undemocratic.

We need another referendum in which the real choices, not pipe dreams, are placed before the country. (Incidentally that's what Jacob Rees-Mogg advocated before the 2016 vote). If the people then vote explicitly for No Deal then, fair enough, that's what we'd go for. But to implement No Deal, relying on the votes of the millions who voted for a different kind of Brexit, is totally immoral.

 

It's neither stereotyping nor an assumption. It's clearly documented fact. Under 30s voted overwhelmingly to remain and over 60s voted overwhelmingly to leave. The leave figures get even higher amongst over 70s and over 80s.
It's a simple fact that those who will have the least time alive to bear the brunt of Brexit are the ones who mostly voted for it.

 

1. Jeremy Corbyn has always been against membership of the EU, and as far as I am aware never said he has changed his mind. Maybe the Labour Party is dictating what their policy is. You may not like your bedfellows, but you don’t suddenly ditch your principles. In fact he has always been driven by his principles. So unless you know him personally and he has told you that, I doubt whether it is true, it certainly never bothered him when standing in the voting lobbies with Tory right wing MP’s.

2. I am not sure that you know why ppl voted leave or remain, your view is anecdotal at best. I personally think ppl should stop trying to imagine why ppl voted the way they did. This is adding to the division and hostility that is ruining the ongoing debate.

3 I think you need to understand that ppl voted leave, they didn’t vote for a deal, all we can say is that 52% voted to leave; 48% of ppl voted to remain. That is it, everything else is pure speculation.

4. You may not like the UK’s version of democracy and I wouldn’t disagree that it has flaws, nevertheless you take part in the election knowing full well it operates first past the post system. We were told that we would only be voting once on this. I strongly disagree with a second vote for democratic reasons mainly. I have no idea what a People’s Vote is? Not to mention the two main parties went into a GE proclaiming they would uphold and deliver the referendum result.


My own view of what is happening in Westminster is one where I see attempts to stop us leaving and overrideing the referendum result. I understand your anger, but do not let it lead you down a undemocratic black hole.

 

History tells us that the young are more idealistic and tend to be more socialist in their views and tend to support Labour,
However as they grow older and some say wiser their views change over time and tend to be more conservative, It is an ongoing process and a great many of the younger generation who might support remain today will change their view as they get older and vote to leave thus replacing those who pass away,
Those who want a peoples vote have never explained what happens if Leave win again which is a strong possibility, they arrogantly believe that the only outcome of a peoples vote will be to remain

 

I bet you voted remain , your final comment above reminds me when we were in the school yard and when we didn't get our own way we said "best of three" and if that didn't work " best of five" but we shouldn't expect anything less with the EU.
The first referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 12 June 2008 was rejected by the Irish electorate, by a margin of 53.4% to 46.6%, with a turnout of 53%.
The second referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 2 October 2009 and the proposal was approved by 67.1% to 32.9%, with a turnout of 59%.

EDIT, the two most senior member of the then Tory Government state this :
The UK's EU referendum represents a "once-in-a-lifetime decision", Chancellor George Osborne has said.

He told Newsnight it was "unrealistic" to assume the poll - likely to be held later this year - would be repeated.

Britain will not hold a second referendum on its membership of the European Union if the result of a June 23 vote is close, Prime Minister David Cameron said on Tuesday.
Now it's not gone the way they and many other expected they want another vote.

And some say there was only the leave side telling lies.

 

Another bloody comedian, welcome....

 

Bang on @Onside the vote was to leave, David Cameron said "a vote leave means to leave the EU single market and the Customs Union". that would mean we took control of our borders, we control who comes into the country not the EU with free movement, we are free to trade with the rest of the world, we make our own laws, but we have to leave, something the majority of MPs both sides do not want.

 

Nonsense. As I said in my post above, if there is a vote in favour of a no deal Brexit, when it is clear that that is what is being voted on, then Remainers would accept that, however much they would dislike it.
What Remainers cannot accept as democratic is a referendum that was based on everyone's own personal, undefined version of brexit being used to justify a no deal Brexit, because that's not what millions who voted Leave voted for.

 

Gove just made a fabulous attack on calamity Corbyn, catch it if you can, could be a bid to be PM ...

 

Well she's still Prime Minister 325 for 306 against.

You couldn't make it up May offers to talk brexit with any MP who's willing to engage in talks, now there are pre-conditions from Corbyn that May promises that a no deal is taken off the agenda, help me out here how can she make that decision when that was always a possibility if there was no deal.

 

True.

I just can't fathom this whole 'we can't allow a no deal' thing. If we don't agree to a deal then there's obviously no deal. That's the default position surely??

 

Unless you're a MP it seems they can vote for what they like.

 

You have no idea why millions of people voted how they did, That is just an unqualified personal opinion much like the millions of individual opinions that voters used with their own opinion and judgement on how to vote, You say you would accept another no deal result but you are being dishonest in both your post and to yourself, Remainers will never accept defeat and if they lost again would resort to the best of 3/5/7/9 etc until like the EU you got your way.

 

Brilliant attack with many home truths explored, Even Corbyns own MPs were seen to squirm with embarrassment as Gove went through the various terrorist organisations that Corbyn supports

 

If you find a link please post it .

 

How dare you tell me I'm being dishonest? How the hell do you know what I believe?
If the people were given a vote on the real Brexit options and decided to back a No Deal Brexit then I would accept that. What I can't accept is the votes of people who voted for a soft Brexit being counted alongside the votes of hard line Brexiteers like you, when they are clearly not the same thing at all.
I respect a democratic vote even if I don't like the result. I can't respect the result of a referendum that counted opposing ideas as though they were the same.