Stuart return?

and I think you are under playing them.

in 2012/2013 - Stuart lost 10 players, and was only able to bring two in. he managed to better his 3rd place finish the season before by his first 2nd place finish.

you might point to the cup draws he had, but you can only beat whats in front of you, and they did that. you can't say he's never had a cup run, you're just ignoring the actual cup runs he has had.
the fact he won Manager of the year points to the fact Motherwell were rather unfancied.

as boss of Motherwell, Rangers and Bradford City the second time he has an over 40% win rate - which is pretty good whichever way you look at it.

 

Working with Rahic gives him "Legendary Status" for me, imagine going in to work every morning and listening to Chairman Mao and his I know football speeches, and wishing he could replying you know s**t.

 

Not Bradford City related, I'd suggest Stuart McCall is Bradford City and all it stands for, I'd say as bigga fan as you and I.

 

And therein lies the problem

 

Since when was being a Bradford City fan a problem.................................

 

You said he is Bradford city and all it stands for. Which means people cannot criticise his managerial ability without it being a sacrilege in posters like @Ricc eyes.
We are unlikely to see a player las good as Stuart in city colours in our lifetime or a better ambassador or meet a more pleasant person as anybody who met him personally will tell you . But because of that we are being disrespectful to him if we criticise his managerial record and we should not separate his playing career and Managerial record

 

I'll say this much - his managerial record is up for debate - I think it's pretty good, all things considered, other people don't.
what I don't particularly like is making out like he's got John Barnes' record or something.

he's done good jobs in a couple of positions, even if he has ultimately not delivered promotions or trophies as yet.

it's reasonable to not want him back as a manager - and BigRod articulated that very well - with very reasonable points. coming on here and saying "he's an abject failure as manager that's why I don't want him back" just isn't very fair to him, and is patently untrue.

 

All managers lose players. Especially in Scotland at that time when the whole league were having to react to the change in finances due to Rangers being removed.

Where have I said he hadn’t had a cup run. I said he’s never had a big cup result. Beating Stranraer to get to a Quarter Final isn’t a big cup result but rather a reflection of the weakness of the competition. Of course you have to beat what is put in front of you but similarly you can also only judge the individual results.

I’m not sure whether you can say they were necessarily unfancied because he won the Manager of the Year, Brendan Rodgers won it in 2017 and I don’t think Celtic were unfancied.

You were making out like Motherwell had an amazing upsurge in the time they were there however in reality they moved up a couple of places from when Mark McGee was the manager which in the grand scheme of things is not exceptional progress and they then significantly regressed in to a relegation battle during his last season.

I’m not fussed about win rate in the slightest. It’s the least effective way of judging a manager as it does not take into account the expectation and the situations they were working in. You can have a 25% win rate and overachieve or a 50% win ration and underachieve, without context it’s meaningless. With every club McCall has been manager, us, Scunthorpe, Rangers and Motherwell the expectation was to be towards the top end of the league therefore your would expect a good win rate.

 

I'm afraid that with logic like this, I can say anything and it won't make a blind bit of difference, you've made your decision that Stuart McCall is absolutely crap as a manager and no amount of facts proving otherwise will change your mind.

a cup final, a league cup semi final, a 3rd place finish, 2 second place finishes, (Motherwell's highest ever finishes in the SPL), a champions league campaign, 4 manager of the month awards, and a manager of the year award and a win rate of 45% says to me he's done pretty well there. obviously you don't, because he only beat Stranraer. you are ignoring key facts to back up your skewed viewpoint. I can't argue with that.

 

There’s no lack of logic to my point of view. There’s also nothing skewing my viewpoint.

I’ve posted Motherwells previous results and positions. The actual unimpressive results that led to the cup final. Those are facts. Pointing out that they only had to beat Stranraer is not a skewing of the facts it is a fact in itself.

You can be impressed by the higher placed finishes and cup runs but even you must acknowledge that the removal of Rangers made all of those things easier. Scotland basically went from a 2 team league to a 1 team league so every other team got a bump upwards in terms of league position and also on how difficult cup progression was.

I explained why win ratio is not an accurate measure of ability. Once again, that’s not ignoring facts it is giving context.

 

Hmmm i smell a dog with a bone, reminds me of a poster from yesteryear. Coincidence surely....?

 

Bronco- agreed and that itends to cause/is part of the issue in so much as there is no objectivity (on either side) where Stuart is concerned.

Anyway my point is that the current discussion is about his overall record and merits as a manager. Hence NOT really a Bradford City thread at this point in time and a bit of a distraction given our current predicament.

 

I did say it wouldn't count because it happened in Scotland........

 

Nope.

 

Well let’s simplify it then his record in England has been poor.

 

But nobody has actually said it doesn't count because it happened in Scotland so your point is what?

 

Meh. If you want to believe Stuart McCall is a crap manager then do so. That doesn’t bother me, it just makes you look a tit with an irrational agenda against the biggest legend the club you supposedly support has.

 

Wouldn’t surprise me.

 

If you say so. I'm not sure how posts made up of logical view points come across as irrational but fair enough.

Talk to me about McCall as a player or as a person and I'll wax lyrical. Talk to me about McCall as a manager and I'll explain why he ticks none of the boxes on which I judge their abilities. I simply think you can't separate the different aspects.

If we want to talk irrational agendas shall we mention a manager who has actually achieved things in the game and given us all some of the best moments of our Bradford City lives but you seem to hate? Now that's irrational.

 

I've only just realised you're giving Stuart credit for a semi final that they reached under Craig Brown. But I'm skewing the facts yeah?