Most liked posts in thread: Players taking the knee

Taking a knee isn't going to stop that.

 

Wow, I actually have no words for what you've said

 

I’d say booing a peaceful anti racism protest does point in the direction of you being racist

 

And you think this forum is representative of the general views of the population, do you?

This is a football forum FFS. That alone makes it a select group with a bias towards social conservatism. It is massively male-dominated for a start. Almost certainly it is predominantly white. It's overwhelmingly northern (obviously). Its class and occupation composition is unlikely to be anywhere near representative of the general population makeup of this country.

Nearly all of my friends and acquaintances are liberal in their views. The vast majority of them have no interest in football whatsoever. There are huge swathes of society with very different views from yours that you clearly have no idea even exist, much less come into regular contact with. The idea that this forum is an accurate snapshot of what 'most people think', is laughable.

 

Good post. So much of the narrative around sensitive matters such as race and gender is creating more division, not less. Personally, I'm generally of the view that political/social matters should be kept out of football and whilst I have no issue with players having the choice whether to take the knee, I think its a largely hollow gesture that's run its course. I also don't buy into the narrative that booing the gesture automatically categorises someone as racist - i think that's a lazy assumption to make.

 

Think you are all missing the point I am making I have no problem about players standing up for racism and I am 100% behind it however racism as being going on long before BLM came on the scene yet the players jumped on the bandwagon by doing the same gesture they had taken up. Does anyone actually think if BLM hadn't taken up that gesture players would have not a chance.

As I said above if they felt so strongly about it why weren't they doing so long before BLM did. Many people dislike BLM and what it stands for, even members of the black community so how can someone who is against BLM be Racist?.

As I said above we are told the two aren't linked but I have given evidence to the contrary.

The simple fact is if the players and football federation had done a completely different gesture no one would be booing. Why for instance couldn't the players stand in front of fans at each stand with banners saying show respect to all. That would have had a greater response by supporters than what's happening now. The gesture has divided fans more than kick out racism did and that's all you need to know that the gesture isn't working.

Let's also be clear you can't label someone who boos a racist because does that mean booing the ref after a bad decision or players after a poor performance can be classed in the same way as the ref and players maybe black?.

Also having to put a colour in front of lives matter whether it's white/black shows people as racist.

 

And if the players thoughts were of the same proportion then this would have been put to bed ages ago, as i've said before they daren't stop in fear of those that must be obeyed..

 

Well said seems if our opinion is different we are bias racist and our so called white privilege is the reason

 

Poor Les Ferdinand, must hate being labelled a racist.

 

So because I have a different view you resort to insults well done you have shown yourself in your true light and people say racism is a issue.

 

It's bloody obvious why players didn't take the knee beforehand. Because the vast majority of people put up with all kinds of crap stuff and don't take radical stances for fear of criticism and reprisals. You only need to see the response to black players missing penalties at the Euros to see what kind of abuse they are subject to at the drop of a hat.

It required someone of exceptional courage to make a gesture and be a leader. Colin Kaepernick did that when he revived the 1960s taking a knee gesture. He was then followed by numerous other US athletes from various sports. That opened the way for other athletes, such as our footballers, to do likewise without feeling that they were putting themselves out on a limb.

The subsequent adoption of the knee by Black Lives Matter is irrelevant. It started as as a gesture by sportsmen and women, unaligned to any party or political movement, and that's what it remains for all of those doing it.

Let's face it, the vast majority of those who boo the knee don't know about the ideology of an unrepresentative handful of irrelevant extremist activists within the massive US BLM movement. That's not why they're booing. Most are people who mistakenly believe that racism is overstated and/or would just prefer not to think about the issue because it doesn't affect them. In a small minority of cases they are outright racists who don't want discrimination against black people to stop.

It was clear from the crowd reaction on Saturday that this forum is not representative of the wider fanbase. A tiny minority booed. The vast majority either maintained a respectful silence or clapped.

 

Do you seriously believe that a bunch of well paid, relatively under-educated footballers are taking the knee because of the ideological principles of a US based protest movement?
Of course they aren't. They are just making a simple gesture to highlight racism, following the lead of the US sportspeople who started doing it.

 

Looks like its all round to Rickys for tea, biscuits and some cross burning in the back garden.

 

Saka, whoever - I just see an England player. And I’m sure Southgate is exactly the same.

 

This equality argument is also somewhat problematic and complicated for a couple of big reasons.

Firstly - you are measuring equality of opportunity in terms of outcomes. This is essentially the 'equity' argument that unless ethnic minorities/ genders etc have an equal share of wealth / power then society is unequal. It is far too simplistic of an argument and discounts individual choice. People such as Jordan Peterson counter-argue this very well.

Second is perception. We only ever highlight areas where there is disproportionate representation (and often we seem to conflate America's diversity issues with our own). In the UK it is estimated that 13.7% of the population is non-white.

In football we often cite underrepresentation of black managers
7 current EFL managers are black (8%) - underrepresentation? sure. But at best it's statistical cherry-picking.
BAME footballers are significantly over-represented. As are BAME pundits.

In politics:
5/23 (22%) of the cabinet is BAME
10% of MPs are non-white.
I'd say that's pretty diverse

In big-business, representation is admittedly currently very low following some high-profile retirements in the last few years.

In music, I'd say it is pretty well represented. Over the last few years nearly 50% of BRIT awards were given to non-white recipients.

Overall, yes there are definitely areas where there is under-representation but there are also plenty of areas where there is overrepresentation. If the argument is that we need more black CEOs do we also not need more white footballers? How is this criteria set?

 

The phrase black lives matter or blm was never heard of until the death of George Floyd.

 

Do you know what, I can't make you see.

You veer from saying that most people aren't aware of the difference between BLM US and the BLM movement and the in the next message say that people should be able to differentiate between the two. Both can't be true.

Regardless of how big the movement becomes for some people BLM will always be linked to what people representing BLM said last year and the knee will always be involved in that too. You can dismiss it if you like but you'll be continually missing the point sadly.

 

It'll never be non existent. Sadly. And it occurs in all areas of the population, and across all cultures. I've seen and experienced at first hand, white people being victims on the basis of their skin colour - I'm not trying to point score, just saying that it happens.

I personally think that a huge amount of progress has been made over the last 20 years, but that's not to say that more isn't needed. That said, my own view is that issues of class and poverty have a far greater impact on far more people, and that these factors have a greater impact on ethnic minorities than terms such as systemic racism and subconscious bias.