Most liked posts in thread: Players taking the knee

All of this I know but it's largely irrelevant. When you're using Black Lives Matter then you can't distinguish your message from the organisation of the same name. You couldn't go around wearing a T-Shirt saying "Nazi" and claim it has nothing to do with the party or the outlook. The words we use and the way we use them matters.

The Premier League knew this which is why they distanced themselves formally from the organisation at the end of last season but by then the damage had been done and the act of kneeling was intricately tied into the US version of BLM by that point and some people don't like it. To say the act of kneeling and BLM US are not intertwined is completely disingenuous.

That's not to say that the message that black lives matter isn't a positive or worth one - it completely is - but the link to the organisation who have some unseemly elements to it will guarantee that there isn't 100% support. Will there be people involved in the booing who are racist and use BLM as a convenient cover story, yes of course, but by picking that gesture we're giving them that cover.

As an aside Kick it Out and the other anti-discrimination platforms have had numerous initiatives and I don't recall them ever being booed so there is something particular about this gesture that gets people's goats. We can either acknowledge that and try to find ways round it or just continue to keep brow beating people into believing it has nothing to do with BLM when they've been told for a year that it has.

 

I’ve read the entire thread. A lot of interesting opinions, a number of which I don’t agree with but interesting nonetheless.

My own take is this. I’m perfectly capable of differentiating between the BLM organisation and the broader movement/message of blm. As such, when Southgate and his players for example say why they take the knee, I’m happy to take that on face value. Arguing about movement vs organisation for me is just a distraction. As such, IMO it’s not for you, me or anyone else to tell them when it should stop.

It’s also for them to say why they do it IMO, not for people to say why they do it on their behalf. Southgate and the players repeatedly say why they do it yet the objectors determine it’s bringing politics into sport (it’s there already folks), it’s directly supporting the BLM organisation etc. Equally, why would they change the gesture simply because people want or choose to make that connection?

Now, what I do get is in principle why the conflation happens. @Aaron Baker has referenced it several times. However, I equally believe that it is very possible to make the distinction if you actually want to. This doesn’t lead to those disagreeing with the gesture automatically being racist though, because that’s a leap and then some. I do though struggle with those disagreeing with what I perceive to be a pretty straightforward gesture with a pretty straightforward message, but disagreeing is one thing. To overtly boo it however, IMO feels strange.

In terms of impact, Kick it Out - whilst of course having the right intention - rightly or wrongly never had anything like the exposure or impact this gesture has created. KIO say they support taking the knee. Yes it creates debate whenever it gets mentioned (this thread is decent proof of that and we’re just a bunch of supporters of a L2 club), but surely that’s kind of the point? It’s turned out to be an incredibly effective way of keeping the issue of racism continuously in the public consciousness for a year. That’s not happened previously in my lifetime that I can recall and I’m 45.

Its not to somehow suggest there aren’t other critical world issues, of course there are. But surely we can agree that the most basic principle of people being fairly treated regardless of skin colour should be an absolute human right? So when something very simple comes along to highlight that very fact - and that we’re not there yet - then for me I don’t see the problem with it.

 

Don't get me started...................

 

You don't get it do you, it's nowt to do with racism it's the connection to the BLM political movement that sticks in the throat...

 

Whether BLM adopted it or not that’s not what it’s about. Why are you trying to complicate it, are you racist or is it just carrying a massive chip on that shoulder.

seems like you’re getting all wound up over BLM and confusing it with this Tony.

From the EFL

Taking the knee is an individual choice that many players wish to make as a way of peacefully demonstrating against racism and injustice. This gesture of unity is not new, and we do not view it as an alignment to any political organisation or ideology, but rather raising the awareness of this important issue. We ask that fans respect any player that wishes to take the knee and support them in their stance against discrimination.

 

Over the years I must have been going to a different VP to those saying they have only seen a few incidents of racism. Over the years I’ve heard monkey chants, people use Nigger and Paki as if they are day to day words, chants about Gypsys.

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. Read my post properly before spewing your sarky, paranoid, knee-jerk responses.
I said that 'only a handful' of overtly racist far right morons - ie the kind that go on EDL marches with fascists like Tommy Robinson - would boycott matches. The rest of the supporters, whether or not they agree with taking the knee, would still attend matches.
I have never said that all Brexiteers are racist and I never said that all those opposed to the knee are either. You have completely misinterpreted my post, which was actually designed to counter the insinuation that large numbers of supporters would boycott games, out of racist motives, because of taking the knee.

 

I wouldn't be too sure about that. You'd think that in 2020/21 supporting anti-racism wouldn't be even slightly controversial. Yet, as taking the knee has highlighted, it's far from an homogenous mass of enlightened views.

 

well said.

 

We've got to stop this knee bollocks, didn't do it for most of last season, it's daft and embarrassing, in the real world hardly 1 in 10 would agree with it so how come all 11 do it ? it's just not right and past its sell by date....

 

Then it is up to those of us who are not far right or Tories to continue to bang the anti racism drum. Nobody would boo supporting say gender equality.

As for taking the knee, it’s individual choice and doesn’t bother me one bit, in fact if it upsets people who don’t know the difference between should of and should have, let it continue.

If you ask me does it make a difference I would say not really but as long as it’s not causing harm it’s ok.

 

Its only a dangerous thread when people can't accept its a debate and as such people will have differing views. If folk can't act like grown adults when in discussion then debate isn't for them.

 

would you say something to someone who booed the team off at half time / full time if we losing/lost by a high score having played bad?
Booing does not make you a racist.

 

The trouble with this gesture is that it comes directly from an organisation which has an agenda far beyond an appeal for racial equality, and includes the abolition of capitalism, and the abolition of the police and prisons among many others. It is this association that many people object to and it is unfortunate that football doesn't seem to appreciate the connection. So those who object to taking the knee are divided between outright racists, as in Hungary last night, and those who disagree with it based on a more measured assessment.

 

How can you possibly know what it's like to be a young black person? To be frequently stopped and searched when you've done nothing. To be racially insulted on a regular basis and told to 'go back home' when you were born here. And as a footballer to be the subject of racist hate messages on social media, as many are. To have bananas thrown and monkey noises directed at you.
It's completely beyond me to understand how anyone could suggest that reacting strongly to those things is being 'delicate'. It's mind-blowingly inappropriate and utterly out of touch with reality.