Election 2019 (with Prediction Poll)

Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser with terrorist friends. Nothing to do with the media, it's his shady past that has caught up with him.

I've seen newspaper reports from the 1980s when he was just a backbencher reporting what a filthy, disgusting, anti British traitor he really is.

 

True enough. Depending on what definitions you prefer, we do have many Socialistic or even Communistic elements in our society, to society's great benefit. If you'll accept as Socialistic/Communistic the idea that the community benefits from things for which the community pays, through rates and taxes etc., then the NHS, the dole, state pensions, the military, the police services, roads and bridges and much infrastructure in general, even the national museums with their free entry to the permanent collections, all would qualify as Socialistic/Communistic.

So far, so good; it's the other aspects of full Socialism that are off-putting: e.g. increased bureaucracy, increased governmental control of all aspects of our lives, decreased personal freedoms, and so on.

What we really need is a party that could be described as Red Tory or, if you like, Blue Labour!

RCB

 

You're missing my point Dave. I'm not asking you to try to persuade me. As Al says, I'm not going to change my mind, any more than you are going to change yours.

As you rightly say, as a Leaver you had no real choice but to vote Tory to make Brexit happen. In doing so you went against your long-held dislike of the Tories. You (and many other traditional Labour voters) believed that the cost of giving the Tories a minimum of five more years in power, and probably longer, was a price worth paying to achieve Brexit.

I'm simply trying to understand what you think the benefits of Brexit will be that will outweigh the damage that the Tories are likely to do. I don't want an argument about it, or to try to make you believe you were wrong - that ship has sailed, so it's pointless. I just want to try to gain understanding of why you and others think it was worth it.

 

You're better off staying here pal, there's a higher class of dope around here.

 

Maybe you'll have to save that question for 5 years until we see the outcome? You're surmising that any Labour people who voted Tory have accepted or at least partially share your point of view on our near future under a conservative government but what you aren't allowing into the debate is that people must have voted Conservative because of fear of the damage a Jeremy Corbyn led Labour government would do.

 

Could be that voters were prepared to have 5 years Conservative government in exchange for Labour having 5 years to get their act together. With the right leader and policies aimed at the broader spectrum of potential labour voters rather than the clique social media following they should be back in power after the country has had enough of 5 years of Tory rule. Its usually the way, the voters eventually become bored and restless and the other lot then get their chance to royally fck it up. it will take the best part of five years for Labour to rid themselves of this momentum style shite that has infested the party like a cancer.

 

I hope you're right Al, but I doubt it. It took 14 years to get back into government after the last defeat of this magnitude, in 1983.
Much depends on whether the LP can find itself a credible leader without all the baggage that Corbyn had. I'm not optimistic, because there is deep division between those who want ideological purity and those, like me, who want pragmatism. Principles without power leave you pissing in the wind.

I've just read this article by Will Hutton, whom I always find to be a very astute commentator. It pretty much sums up where I'm at. If we end up with another non-electable ideologue then I'm out. I'm not going to spend the remaining active years of my life banging my head against a wall, trying to get an unelectable party into office.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/15/unions-colluded-in-fiction-corbyns-plan-never-win-power?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Thats a fantastic article, one that i can pretty much wholly resonate with. How it alludes to the fact that the a 'vibrant purpose driven private sector is an indispensible part of any economic structure, that to me is the key to any progress of any nation. Its industry. Without that your country dies. its why this country an economic power will eventually decline and keep declining. A vibrant public sector powers your public sector. Our situation isn't unique, other established European countries have the same problems.
Everything in that articles points to the real time problems Labour face going forward, but these things have been pointed out to them before but they don't and didn't listen. For the sake of this country they have to read it and act upon, but i'm pretty sure there are too many of a stubborn nature with their own agendas who will steadfastly refuse to give up their place on the heirachy ladder.
I've said for years, no one beats the Labour party, the sum of their parts beats itself into submission.

 

What a load of rubbish,

 

I don’t get it. Which restaurant is he reviewing

 

It's not though is it. Bang on the money.

It's like your model railway enthusiasts. They always build a little world that looks like the set of Heartbeat. Red phone boxes, blue passports and jam roly poly all round.

 

You should be ashamed you haven't credited a link Hoochy....

 

Ok thanks.

 

He was an Obnoxious writer and anyone who believes his drivel needs to wake up and give their head a shake and move on to the modern world,

 

Beaten to the punch! I was thinking about making such a comment, but dinner got in the way!

RCB

 

Hoochy having a nightmare.

 

Own goal.

 

I pinched it from someone else's pinch on Facebook so no idea of the original source.