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December: Things Could Look Better Before The Window

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by JonButterfield, Dec 3, 2022.

  1. XCIV_Bantam

    XCIV_Bantam Squad Player
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    I did touch on this in a previous comment, orient and stevenage had a lower squad turnover and didnt lose key players like we did. Every team with a higher squad turnover is below us, 3 of them are the bottom 3.

    Genuinely i think where we are with the turnover is great stuff. Yes the home form is naff but that will get fixed - the club isn't going to sit there and suggest being 15th in home form is great.

    Promotion is the aim and we are getting towards it. Nobody is going to say “demand better” when we are at Wembley.

    I do get the concern but i just think we are in a wobble. Got gillingham and rochdale to set us right!
     
  2. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Looks more likely that we lose at Gillingham and scrape a draw home to Rochdale on current form though ...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    I probably should. Unfortunately I'm a glutton for punishment though and struggle to stop going.
     
  4. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    The quality of the players that we have brought in, is largely seen as better or at least equivalent to those who left, last season. Vernam was great but regularly injured. Watt was often the butt of criticism when here, but now seen as the new Pirlo! Paudie was a 100% player but really no better than Platt. A number of the new players are exciting and/or have played at a higher level.

    I genuinely hope the team ‘gells’ better than it is at the moment.

    The lack of goals from players other than Cook is very concerning. Behind Cook, the line of 3 are failing. Seven goals from the three who started on Saturday, is more akin to a lower mid table side.

    Yes I would settle for promotion via the Play Off’s but had hoped we could do enough to sneak a slot in the top three.

    Perhaps I am greedy, but l want both victories and to be entertained at home.
     
  5. XCIV_Bantam

    XCIV_Bantam Squad Player
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    I agree other than the point with Watt, think he is a big loss and not been able to replace him. We lack a decent AM who can ping balls across the pitch. fingers crossed we do well in Jan.
     
  6. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    Personally l would have preferred that he had stayed. My view both was, and is that he developing as a player.
     
    XCIV_Bantam likes this.
  7. Captain Grumpy

    Captain Grumpy Impact Sub
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    Didn’t Steve Evans have a big clear out of players though after he took over? Stevenage were relegation certainties when he took over so I assume he got rid of loads and brought in replacements to keep them up. Much as nobody wanted him at City he would have got us up this season,admittedly with direct play but it would be a damn sight more entertaining than tip tap tip tap repeat.
     
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  8. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    His old club Gillingham are in great shape ... As are his old club Crawley ...
     
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  9. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    So, summing it all up; We lost key players, generally replaced them with better and that's the reason we aren't as high up as teams who didn't replace their key players with better but finished below us last year?

    Clear as mud.
     
  10. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    He did and Leyton Orient also brought in more than a dozen players. It doesn't fit in with the excuses made though so it's deemed as largely irrelevant by some.
     
  11. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    I don't have an answer to this question, but I'd be interested to know who stayed behind the scenes at clubs like Stevenage and Leyton Orient, as I recognise they have new head coaches, but are they also like us in that they also have completely new heads of recruitment as well?

    I've long felt clubs with some level of consistency at this level benefit, whereby we tend to replace all and sundry, have no real club expertise, AND change total direction and tactics all in one very regular full sweep, hence we tend to get nowhere, and even when we do start to get somewhere, quickly reset and undo all the good work.

    Aside from anything else, I can already feel some fans wanting to change tactics either under Hughes or after Hughes departs, despite the fact we're operating with the most modern and successful tactics of the current generation.

    I can only assume if Hughes left tomorrow, our fan base would be stupid and naive as to want a more direct style of play thus undoing all the good work we've done YET AGAIN, and preventing us from ever building on the back of a real footballing identity.

    And with Rupp and Sparks knowing next to nothing about football, and having failed to enact any sort of sensible forward-thinking plan related to on-field consistency, I almost expect that they'd support the pushing of yet another reset button.

    All with predictably shit results.
     
  12. XCIV_Bantam

    XCIV_Bantam Squad Player
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    Why does replacing with better automatically mean we go higher?

    Who said the teams above us did replace with better?

    You clearly havent looked at the image i posted. Leyton orient and Northampton have one of the lowest squad turnovers. And Stevenage got rid of a lot of fringe players.

    You still haven’t answered my questions regarding

    How did i manipulate the data?
    How are we in 6th?

    Interesting how you ignore the questions you dont want to answer but then move in again to argue purely in bad faith. You are not fussed about right or wrong - just obsessed with arguments itself.

    One more of the sort from you I'm popping you on ignore.
     
    #72 XCIV_Bantam, Dec 7, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2022
    JonButterfield likes this.
  13. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    Who said that?
     
  14. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    To be honest, I think you've done a good job of highlighting the positives.

    It's too early to say whether the longevity of Hughes' reign plays a factor or not, that hinges on how stupid we are as a club, but I'd be giving him next season regardless of the outcome of this campaign - which isn't a popular opinion, but equally, I don't think we're going to plummet down the table anyway. So it's a safe bet that we end up sticking with the big man, IMO.

    But the stats tell their own story.

    I don't see that you've constructed a narrative, but the data is promising - more promising than our emotions are equipped to deal with right now.

    Changing players, managers, heads of recruitments, CEO's, and owners in recent years has got absolutely nowhere. It's actually made things worse.

    Things were best under Rhodes, Lawn and Parkinson, when they were working consistently for a few years. Since then, we haven't come close to that level of consistency, and our results have plummeted.

    It's too early to pull the plug on Hughes, Gent, or a passing 4-2-3-1 style of play.

    We haven't got it perfectly right at the first possible opportunity - but that's no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
     
  15. XCIV_Bantam

    XCIV_Bantam Squad Player
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    Cheers Jon, quite a few on here are keen to make out any sort of bad form is terminal or that we shouldn't lose a few games - both of which are ridiculous really. Especially the games we lost were against sides that are 1st and 3rd. Everyone seems so quick to forget we battered Stevenage 3-0 and that we are 6th!

    " more promising than our emotions are equipped to deal with right now." and this is why I swim in the data ;)
     
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  16. bantamdave41

    bantamdave41 Regular Starter
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    Shall we put that season partly down to Parky, Rhodes and Lawn... But you already know that.

    I suppose 1 double digit season of home wins since said season, is more reason for you to stick up for the god damn awful owner?
     
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  17. Captain Grumpy

    Captain Grumpy Impact Sub
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    A lots happened at Crawley since he was there. Gillingham went down the pan after he left. You can’t dispute what he did at Rotherham and is doing at Stevenage.
     
  18. Captain Grumpy

    Captain Grumpy Impact Sub
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    Your blaming the wrong villain mate. Rahic was the one that got us into the mess. Rupp has done nothing wrong other than give each manager a competitive budget. As for your heros Lawn and Rhodes, can you imagine the state we would be in with their lack of funds to get through COVID, no cup run since 2015. Far from getting Hughes a competitive budget it would have been cut ,cut,cut the budget deficit.
     
  19. Captain Grumpy

    Captain Grumpy Impact Sub
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    I agree Rupp knows nothing about football that’s why he employs Sparks to run the show. However Sparks will be as knowledgeable as the average club director, certainly as savvy as the Orient or Stevenage owner. It’s the manager who makes the on field decisions plus the recruitment guy and if they get that right then all is right with the world as it is at Orient and Stevenage.
     
  20. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    I can't dispute what Wellens did at Swindon, or what he's doing at Northampton, either, and without the likelihood that it all goes to shit afterwards.

    Wellens is a much better manager than Evans, and far closer to what we have here in Hughes.

    If we're busy coveting other managers, Wellens > Evans every single day of the week.
     

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