Brexit - 2nd Referendum - The (Bradford City FC) Peoples Vote

We voted out mate, not some arrangements made behind closed doors by a remainer. I don't care what feeble excuse you come up with. There's a good reason why Davis and Raab resigned. You are obviously an anti democrat. We want out, that's what we voted for. Out next March and fully out. Tell me what the two people responsible for Brexit, more than anyone, think about this? Farage and Johnson. Then get back to us and tell us how this so called deal is what we voted for. It's nothing like it, not even close. You either believe in democracy or you don't. You clearly do not.

 

Not all, but the majority of arguments put forward for leaving relied heavily on the notion that the EU needed us more than we needed them. In fact, that was one of the major tag lines for the entire campaign. The EU will give us a good trade deal because it's in their best interests, the EU will let us close our borders but still allow us to bring in EU doctors and nurses, because why not?

Lo and behold, it turns out that the EU did not need us more than we need them and Brexit was always doomed to fail as a result. It's very easy to blame the current farce on politicians without being able to provide a single solution to any of the complexities that face us at the moment.

 

The EU DOES need us. It desperately needs us, which is why it is adopting these disgusting tactics to ensure that no other EU member state would even consider having a referendum, let alone leaving.

If you were a member of a golf club and you said you were leaving and the gold club openly laughed in your face and told you they would do everything they could to make sure you never played gold again, that they'd try do ruin your business, and that you've never ever be able to even drive through the entrance gates, or even drive along the road outside the gold club.

Well, that would never happen would it? But that is EXACTLY what is happening to the UK as far as the EU is concerned.

The EU has to accept we want to leave, but they are doing everything possible to make sure nobody else steps out of line.

That is NOT democracy.

You should be able to join a golf club because you like what it has to offer. If at some point in the future the gold club goes down hill and starts to introduce all sorts of silly rules and regulations, you should be allowed to leave. Simple.

I don't want to be a member of ANY organisation that openly bullies people, which is why I voted leave.

 

To use your analogy, there's nothing stopping us from leaving golf club. Just don't sit around a negotiating table expecting to still have access to the benefits of gold club once you've decided to withdraw your membership. Many brexiteers still think the EU owe us something when they don't.

There's also nothing stopping us from playing golf again. We can still negotiate trade deals and whatever else with other countries, just not under EU rules as we are no longer part of it

 

We accept we cannot play golf any more. That is taken a read. But what if we can't even have a drink with our friends in the club house (when invited), just like other members of the public can.

I am sure you understand my point, and it slightly puzzles me why so many remainers are so desperate to be run by what is now clearly a bunch of unelected old civil servants in Brussels.

I don't want to be part of this fuddy-duddy clique.

I want to be the young dude who spreads his wings on a global stage and is ready and willing to do business with anyone and everyone and not rely on protectionism to maintain our place in the world.

I would also like to do much more trade with people of other skin colours and religions and not just be part of this white predominantly Christian old boys club.

I'd like to see us help bring Africa on and other merging nations.

The EU WAS a good idea, and still could be a good idea, but in its current form it is a seriously undemocratic, inefficient, corrupt, monolithic bureaucracy that is no longer fit for purpose.

I'm sure you will doubt these things, but will believe what the remaincentric BBC has to say, so here's what they reported a few years back, before all of this really started:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26014387

or how about this from the EU's own website:

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/organized-crime-and-human-trafficking/corruption/anti-corruption-report_en

I just don't get the remainer's love-in with these people.

 

Just like other members of the public can? Other countries have deals with the EU on worse terms than we had inside it. Being a member of the EU is what brought us substantional benefits such as being able to trade inside the largest free trading single market on the planet.

As for the corruption part, I believe you. The EU are corrupt. Corruption does and always will exist at the top. The world is full of corruption. Do you think this is something which will be avoided when we become a great independent nation? Full of honestly and integrity?

I can't speak for anyone else but imdidnt want to remain because I was a pro EU fanatic. I liked aspects of being an EU member and also think that some of the criticisms many leave voters have put forward are valid. It doesnt mean I'm going to convince myself that the alternative is so great without even knowing what it is.

 

Very well put.
That is the fairest and most rational response I have read regarding reasons to remain.

 

The deal offered and negotiated is a good deal apart from one clause that kills it, Under the deal we will leave the EU Parliament and sever all political ties with the EU, Citizens rights will be preserved, There will be an end to free movement and immigration, We will not make yearly contributions to the EU, We will get our borders back and our national waters will be restored, We will have the right to negotiate and ratify trade deals with other countries but not make them live untill the end of the transition period, Plus numerous other benefits,
BUT the one item that kills it dead is the Irish Backstop where we have to get the EU to allow us to finally leave the customs union and thus the final tie, This puts the power of our final leaving in the hands of the EU and unless this can be changed then the deal is dead IMO

 

I can see another referendum coming now.

 

Could only have 2 options though....Theresa's deal or no deal (we've already voted to come out)...

 

A GE would be better.

 

What, and let a bunch of half witted Marxists in...?

 

Get the stuation with regards the backstop to be cancelled once we feel there is no need for it, we say when we come out not the EU, you will get that through the house of commons.

 

I'd like to think that would be good enough but right now I fear for our democracy.....we have seen shameful behaviour and cowardice from some 75% of parliament..

 

The EU won't go for that though. They hold all the cards now, as they have from day one despite the proclamations of the Brexiteers.

No idea how this will end up now. I don't think parliament will let us go out with no deal, but I don't think there is a compromise that will get through either.

Deeply worrying times. For us to be leaving the EU at a time of deep tensions between the US and China is less than ideal. We've been protected in the EU for so long. We will be treading on eggshells trying not to upset the Chinese for any deal within Africa.

I get the huge significance of the Irish border and that is a nightmare to negotiate through. However, what worries me more is that we are politically so woefully underprepared to trade under WTO conditions.

My guess is that we may end up with a 'national unity' government to get us through the next couple of years. The Tories are about to tear themselves apart, and I doubt a party led by BJ or similar will win a majority at the next election.

 

I agree although May was saying when she gave her Brexit speech last week that the EU did not want us to stay in the backstop indefinitely they wanted us out as early as possible, I don't necessarily believe that to be true, so go back and put that situation to them, lets see if they are that bothered or not, because one thing for sure she will not get it through as it is.

 

Interesting that voting leave immediately means you're somehow closely associated with Boris Johnson.

 

The relavant number of letters are now in to the 1922 club, it looks like Theresa May is on her way out ?.

 

I’m done. Tory @?#& going full blown Tory on each other. Give it to Mogg, let him have a go at delivering something that’s undeliverable. When the shit hits the fan, and cheap shoes won’t be enough, then maybe the grown ups can have a go. W@nkers.

 

Irony is, any ‘bumps in the rd’ and price increases will be most keenly felt by many that voted leave. I say hard brexit now - fck it. Let them destroy our union and make us look a laughing stock in the eyes of the world. Let the brexiteers have their cake, i hope it tastes good, and if it doesn’t we’ll find out who their next scape goat will be to all the ills.