Brexit - 2nd Referendum - The (Bradford City FC) Peoples Vote

Right. So you’re proposing that the death rate of under 40s is broadly the same as the rate for over 50s?

 

Right. So you’re proposing that the death rate of under 40s is broadly the same as the rate for over 50s?

 

What does being in a customs union actually mean then?

Does it mean if we do agree to trade then we've already agreed on the terms of trade because we're in this union together but it doesn't actually mean we've agreed to trade anything until we start doing it?

 

We are in a customs union right now. In simple terms its a system of shared regulations. In terms of trade it means if the EU sign a free trade deal with USA, Japan, Australia or other that we also share that trade deal. Any tariffs that are applied to goods outside of the EU are imposed by each member equally. It is designed so that if you make shoes in the UK you have the same rules as a shoe maker in Italy. The same fees for importing raw materials from outside the EU etc.

For our industries its better to be in a customs union because they can trade without barriers within the EU. As a member of the EU we can also throw our weight into the mix and when trade deals are negotiated we can work together to get a better deal. For example under TTIP the EUs deal prevented the NHS from being plundered by the USA health giants. It stopped harmful hormone meat coming into our markets undercutting our farmers.

 

Cheers.

So, in checking I understand, we can be in a customs union with the EU without being in the EU?

If we're in the EU and in a customs union with them I can see how it benefits both parties but surely there would be some "cost" we'd have to pay to be in a customs union with them without being a member?

 

Being in a customs union and the other side being 27 nations strong versus our 1. Would mean that we would end up taking rules with little chance of influencing them. So we end up having our trade law, workers laws and a ton more being dictated to us. As well as a payment for membership as you stated.

So you cannot have brexit and be in a customs union.

Whereas, being a member of the EU gives us 73 MEPs which is way more than most except france and germany. Most countries in the EU have about 5 or 6 MEPs. So we have a lot of clout when it comes to the rule making. Our current deal with the EU makes us a special nation as we dont have to join the Euro, we dont have Schengen and we get a big rebate.

Brexit is a decision people are entitled to make but above ^^^ is just some facts.

 

I am extremely concerned about the road our country is traveling at the moment. We ‘appear’ to be binning democracy. The political classes in Westminster have decided that the populace didn’t know what they were voting for, no sorry just the 52% didn’t know.

I am aghast that we are now told that a group of MP’s intend to take over the House of Commons so they can take control of Brexit. The liberal leader with a certain amount of glee said it is now the beginning of the end of Brexit all together.

Those that are now clamouring for a 2nd referendum are ignoring the fact that a sovereign promise was made to the British ppl that there would be only one vote on this issue and the government whatever way the vote went would deliver whatever the ppl decided. These same ppl when pressed that they are ignoring the original vote, say oh no they respect that vote, but now they will know what they are voting for, they say this without blinking an eyelid, oh and have now reclassed the 2nd referendum as a People’s Vote!

Nevertheless, I honestly do not know what it will achieve if we had an identical vote, wouldthis vote be more valid than the last one? If so, how? What will be the questions this time around? If it inconclusive what then. This will take approximately 9 months to complete, meanwhile we live in suspension and all the ramifications that would involve. No doubt a general election, lack of stability, the economy dragging itself along, further rifts within local communities and the nation as a whole.

The EU do not want us to leave, and by giving a deal/outlined deal and refusing to move on any of its red lines are now trying to sell us a pig in a poke.

The whole process was and is a shambles from start to finish, we were not confident in our own ability as a Nation, we stood differing while the EU took control.

I voted to remain, not because I love the EU far from it, but because I absolutely knew it would be like this and cause further division within the country. I believe government should be as close to the ppl it serves, and less government is more as far as I am concerned. It is extremely expensive, and doesn’t really respect sovereign nations.

If they call for a another referendum, then I will vote to leave in solidarity of those who voted in the first referendum. If the result is reversed, I will never vote again, because democracy will have died, and there would be no point. I have voted all my life, never missed a GE, or referendum, and the majority of local and EU votes.

Ok, rant over.

 

Any second referendum should be boycotted, we know what we want and what's needed, sort it out your bloody selves you self serving parliament pricks...

 

This is exactly why I have never accepted that the referendum was a fair democratic vote.

The deck was massively stacked in favour of the Brexit side because the meaning of 'Leave' was never spelled out on the ballot paper. So everyone could vote for their own personal fantasy idea of Brexit, even though the realities of leaving were nothing like what was described before the vote. The leave vote comprises an amalgamation of all the different leave possibilities, even though many were mutually incompatible. If the real choices had been made clear there are many middle of the road swing voters who wouldn't have voted to leave.

Those arguing that the so called ''will of the people' is being subverted always assume that everyone else voted for their version of Brexit. They didn't.

 

If we stay in the customs union as Labour want then we must pay £billions each year for access to it and we cannot make deals with other countries only through the EU, We have to accept free movement of people to the UK and stay under the jurisdiction of the European court over our own, In fact it is staying in the EU but having no influence and say in how it is run,

 

We were given a democratic vote, We were all sent a leaflet and advice asking us to stay and what leaving would be like for the economy with dire warnings of the result of a leave vote, This £9million bill was paid for by the government and no such funding was allowed for the leave side, Re -writing history because the result goes against you is common but wrong, The government after giving everyone lots of advice through the remain leaflet and tv debates and plenty of press and news shows gave the people a simple choice, Remain or leave, The democratic result was leave and should be respected and honoured in full

 

A simple question if most of the younger generation are against brexit why did they not get out in numbers to the polling station on the day and vote the referedum down.
Because they couldnt be bothered, where as with us oldies its a natural thing we do because we realise just how important that one off vote ment.
I say one off because that whats we were told by David Cameron "a once in a lifetine vote" I'll have a £10 Burns Unit Bet with you that these conniving bastards vote through an amendment for another referendum, we are seeing true democracy in action with our MPs.

 

Yes, everyone got a leaflet. Big deal. They also got weeks of relentless media coverage telling them that Brexit would provide £350m people for the NHS, the EU would give us a good deal because they need us more than we need them, and this would be the easiest negotiation we've ever done. All those things were lies but they convinced millions of undecided voters to vote leave.
The vote was undemocratic because it allowed hard, no deal Brexiteer votes to be added to soft Brexit votes to defeat Remain, even though those two types of Brexit are totally different and mutually incompatible.

 

It allowed leavers to vote leave and remainers to vote remain, It is not hard to understand unless you have lost and bitter
BTW did the remainers tell everyone our contributions would increase over the years or that the EU want a EU army taking defence decisions away from the UK, Did they mention the EU is determined that all countries within the EU will have to use the Euro and use the EU central bank instead of the bank of England, Did they mention the creep in EU powers that will take all decisions to the EU bureaucrats?
No thought not,
Most people realise that the EU does not stand still and has the ambition to be the United states of Europe where countries become vassal states run by a an elite group of bureaucrats in the name of but not by or of the people whom they regard as stupid, Those voting to remain proved there point

 

No i'm trying to follow your assumption that it was mainly elderly voters that want to , stereo typing yet again . The people voted to leave , if a 2nd referendum is called democracy in this country will be dead , the EU have held 47 referendums and won them all , not because they are great , but because they refuse to except them and want vote after vote till they get a result they want . The EU is an unelected corrupt cess pit that as opened doors across Europe to the rise of the far right , hopefully this bottomless money pit full of pond life will fold very soon .

 

Funny!

 

Demographics is a side show in my view. If somebody would like to explain to me why age matters. Everyone in the country who were eligible to vote had the choice to vote.

If you didn’t vote because you didn’t understand, that is no excuse, if was your duty to find out before you voted. There are always pluses and minuses on both sides or the argument it is for the citizen to analyse what they think would be best for themselves, family and the country as whole.

I voted no when I was asked the first time, as a young person, I thought it appeared like an exclusive club for rich ppl. Since then it has expanded beyond all recognition taking an active part in all our lives.

Not one person knows what the impact on our lives will be if we stay in the EU and if we leave. All of it is speculation. In my view what we have to do is stop cowering and being frightened of change, we have to stand up and be brave. This is what the country voted for, yes on both sides they may well not have known how it would impact but the majority voted for a complete change.

I can think of many elections where I railled against the outcome, it wasn’t what I wanted for my country. If we could have reversed the decision, would I have gone ahead? Absolutely not, because that would have been totally undemocratic, and we mess with that at our peril. Our democracy is not perfect, and like many other versions it has flaws, but it is what we have adopted, and to ride rough shed over it will see our country diminished beyond all recognition.

 

WINNER !!

 

Strange how MPs change their opinions to suit the situation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/a8t9pt/jeremy_corbyns_record_on_europe/

Anyone would have expect Jeremy to be a pro-brexiter with a voting record like this.