Will league 2 return next season? (Now with Poll)

The only reason the PL has had any effect on the EFL wages is because they give them more money from the PL TV deal than the EFL's TV deal gives them. It’s not the PL fault that basically all EFL clubs and the EFL as an organisation is a shambles, it’s their own fault because rather than use that money to make the clubs better you do things like pay Hope Akpan £3k a week. Giving you more money isn’t going to help, in 12 months you will be complaining you need even more having blown in on sub-standard players

You can sit there and moan about the PL not caring about the wider English game but the EFL is as guilty of that as anyone. They have failed the English game now for over a decade by getting left behind, a Belgium 2nd division club has better facilities and more modern approaches despite having less money than EFL league 2 And why is that? It’s because they aren’t being given a hand out, they need to develop players of a good enough standard so they can be sold on and so as to fund the club. That’s been good for Belgium football as it produces a production line of talent, something England doesn’t

What the EFL seems to what is for the likes of Burnley, Bournemouth and the likes to put their existence on the line which due to this situation is already precarious to help a group of clubs that are largely run badly with a hand out that means they don’t have to help themselves

 

You make claims that the EFL somehow wastes money because the PL has put money into the EFL begging bowl via the solidarity payments. But you fail to mention how the PL continues to sudsidise the PL clubs who have been relegated and still receive enormous sums via parachute payments. To make the point, the PL continues to pay parachute payments to only 6 clubs which is about 3 times what the PL pays in total to the other 66 EFL clubs as solidarity payments. These 6 clubs are clubs which have failed at the top level but continue to be subsidised through an old boys' club! It's the parachute system to the 6 failed clubs which inflates the wages in the Championship to an unsustainable level which other Championship clubs without parachute payments are then forced to follow to be competitive. But you haven't mentioned that aspect of the PL funding system. And whilst we're at it, you also criticise EFL clubs, most of which have turnovers in the range £4-8 million outside of the championship, for wasting the £500,000-700,000 they receive as solidarity payments. And at the same time, you recognise that many clubs in the PL make losses on turnovers in excess of £150 million! I could even name two PL clubs which make losses even when their turnovers are circa £400 million or higher. Now who is wasting money there?

You make out that somehow the PL is well run and efficient and if only the EFL clubs were as equally well-run and efficient, they wouldn't be in such a mess. EFL clubs do make mistakes and probably do waste some money but many live a hand to mouth existence on modest budgets. Have a look in detail at the PL clubs and explain how with their vast resources, most still manage to be loss making and some of those losses are eye-watering on equally eye-watering turnovers. That's what I'd call being wasteful and inefficient!



ps As far as I know, the Belgium 2nd Division (really called Division B) is the division just below Divsion A ( their top Division) and better equates with our Championship rather our 4th tier Division 2. Drawing comparisons between Belgium's Division 2 with our own Division 2 is really pointless other than their names are similar if used incorrectly.

 

I was going on revenues. Belgium’s top 2 divisions bring in €316mill in revenue which at current exchange rates is £282m.

In the English leagues It’s around £5bn for the PL league. £750m for the Championship, £150m for league one and just under £100mill for league 2.

Now if we assume a 60/40 split which is most likely generous that puts the Proximus league at £115m so closest to League 2. In reality though it’s likely a fair bit more in the the Juliper pro leagues favour

I haven’t said PL clubs are all that well run but they also aren’t asking for handouts from other leagues to offset their losses. They also haven’t just stood still in the 90's as far as infrastructure And non-playing personal goes. Most of the established PL clubs have training and medical setups that are top level and help them develop players and those smaller ones that have come up from lower levels like Burnley and Bournemouth are putting plenty of money into that area. If EFL clubs were doing a better job developing players they wouldn't need hand outs as the transfer money, performance fees and sell-one would generate lots but that’s not the case for most who invest very little in those areas. If we actually had EFL clubs being part of a serious production line of talent I'm sure PL clubs would be happy giving more, there would be a return on investment but as it is they would get more for their money giving the same amount to help multiple foreign leagues.

Just take your Rose tinted glasses off for a second so you aren’t having your love for City skewing it and tell me what exactly do most EFL clubs really add to the English football landscape apart from adding depth? (which could in many ways be seen as a Negative anyway as there are too many teams in such a small country). Very little as the low quality training/medical facilities and the lack of modern coaching and approaches limits players. Just look at City over the last couple of season, your tactics across multiple managers has been play a hobbit up front and then loop long balls up to him. You can play more technical football at this this level if you put the right things in place and give it time, Crewe have shown this at time’s this season but there isn’t enough of wanting to put in the hard work to move clubs forward on that front and that stifles players potentials. It’s no coincidence that most of the recent EFL players being bought by PL clubs have come through clubs that spent a fair amount of time on the PL so have better setups in place. And even the championship sides coming up to the PL often dispose of their 'efl' players. Look at Norwich where the players largely come from top clubs abroad, PL setups or through their own academy (Norwich being a yo-yo club are one the EFL clubs which are more PL level in their setups). Sheffield United are one of the few in the past few years who have had a good number of players who got signficant game time who came through EFL routes that aren’t yo-yo PL teams but that perhaps has more to do with Wilders style than anything, in many ways he is playing more EFL style than PL style shown by the fact he bought a few more technical players but hasn’t picked them all that often, he wants to frustrate teams and catch them on the counter so wants discipline not silky skills

I've mentioned parachute payments before but remember these aren’t something that the PL is to blame for. It was something the EFL demanded and which they had increased in the last round of negotiations. It’s another example of the mismanagement by the EFL. They want free money with the intention that it’s supposed to be to prevent them getting stuck with wages they can’t pay but the clubs that get it abuse it yet the EFL keeps pushing to get them more despite this and the overall impact it has on everyone else.

And the thing is that money the EFL wants only exists because the PL clubs spend so much which helps them have product which is the most desirable in the world. It would be better if the PL teams were also better run but that may lower the EFL money if the product becomes less desirable so you can't be asking for more money from the PL and also ask them to be better run.

Ultimately in theory I have nothing against more money being given to the EFL but I just think as things are right now it would be wasted and give clubs more of an excuse to not modernise and when they get into trouble blame the PL and try and guilt trip them into giving them more money like Bury tried. A strong EFL that improves not just itself but the PL and the national team shouldn’t need more and more handouts as they should be producing players that are equal or better than what can be got abroad for the same price and that’s simply not what’s happening which is why they have found finances stretched as they overpay for average players and aren’t able to fund the operation for the next year by selling the next player they have developed into someone PL clubs are interested in

 

Yes because comparing an Amateur league is a fair comparison isn’t it. You can’t compare countries based on the league level as they aren’t level. The Belgium division 2 has revenues around what the English League 2 has so that’s the fairest comparison.

And thing is developing players doesn’t just help the higher levels, it helps you also to make players better but that isn’t largely happening. And yes if you do a good job it will mean you have to sell some of them to bigger clubs but that allows for reinvestment which helps clubs reach their goals.

And the thing is it’s not buying experienced players that’s the problem. It’s the type of players that large amounts of money is thrown at. It’s players with limited ability with a low ceiling for improvement. Give city a PL level setup and does the like of Akpan ever become better than a League 2 player? Highly debatable. How many of city’s players realistically have any chance of moving through the divisions if City went in a run up the leagues over the next few years? Some might be able to make the step up to league 1 but Championship and above?

The simple fact is if players aren’t attracting interest from further up the leagues on a regular basis then players progress is stalling and if progress is stalling that’s as big a problem for the clubs with the players as it is for those who might want to take players from lower divisions

 

The thing is stockpiling wouldn’t be needed if we didn’t have a situation where EFL clubs lack the facilities and training techniques to produce PL quality players. Stockpiling youngsters for most clubs isn’t exactly great business as it costs a fortune and most never make the first team and end up being released on a free. After all none of the PL clubs think the u23 setup is adequate, having u23 players play against other u23 players doesn’t develop them so clubs almost know if a player hasn’t made it into the first team by 20 they are going to be a lost cause. They would like them to have first team games but the problem is the majority of players these days don’t come back better players. They go on loan and get lower quality training, play tactics that don’t ready them for their return and often get used sparingly. It’s why PL clubs like the B Team idea because they would get competitive minutes at a level better than the u23 league as they would come up against players with experience not just other inexperienced u23 players but would get the same level of training and could play tactics more fitting. And they would get the guaranteed minutes they needed.

And you do realise your example of Periera totally undermines your idea of large fees being required which is why loans don’t happen. If it about the money how does it make sense to have a player at the club with the club picking up the full wage when it could be less on loan. The way feed for PL loans are usually structured is they are variable. For example united had Tanner out at Salford with Salford said to be picking up about 30% of his wage (so about £500 a week) but if he plays it reduces. The fees are used to try and guarantee they get minutes as the minutes are really the only reason to send them on loan in England.

On the Peterborough chairman’s comments the rumours were last summer the player in question was Mason Greenwood. So ofc he was quoted a high amount, he was 4th choice striker at the time and Lukaku was heading out of the door. Sending him to league 2 would have only made sense if he was going play every league game so the fee would have been aimed to ensure that. If clubs had better setups then minutes wouldn’t be the only reason to send them on loan and fees would be lower (as they often are when sent on foreign loans)

As for limiting number of young players PL teams can have how does that help EFL teams. If they aren’t investing in developing players now why are they going to start if they have morE access to youngsters. It’s likely to just see more players who fail to get anywhere near their potential

 

You can’t have your cake and eat it. If you are going to say PL clubs need to stop being selfish and give the EFL more money you can’t then be fine with EFL clubs being selfish and only looking after themselves. Either all of English football is in it together and it has to be a symbiotic relationship where the PL helps fund the EFL but the EFL provides an environment that players can improve rather than stagnates OR everyone’s out for themselves and in which case the EFL doesn’t even justify what it gets let alone more