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VAR

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Park bantam, Jun 10, 2019.

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VAR

  1. Good

    11 vote(s)
    28.2%
  2. Bad

    28 vote(s)
    71.8%
  1. Park bantam

    Park bantam Well-Known Member
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    do people think it is a good advancement for the game or a negative we would have been well in credit last season if it had been available but does it take some of the talking points and spontaneity out of the game
     
  2. Skyebantam

    Skyebantam Well-Known Member

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    It’s terrible. The worst of all is the new interpretation of handball. Absolute joke, a rule change made by absolute imbeciles.

    Luckily it won’t affect the khazi league though. I’m used to seeing it used in ligue 1 etc on tv, and i preferred things how they were. Stops the game too much, it just courts controversy and i honestly just think it is done for tv pundits to have something else to waffle about. And cause ‘more talking points’, not less.
     
    #2 Skyebantam, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  3. Frank Castle

    Frank Castle Moderator
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    I don't like it in it's current format and wish that the officials could use it when they needed it rather than the VAR checking absolutely everything.
     
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  4. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    I've always been against it. It's something that they have been bullied into adding without any thought.

    If you look at GLT that was something Football was put under pressure to add for ages but they didn't let themselves get forced into it because it wasn't fit for purpose at the time. Look at tennis as an example, Hawkeye takes an age and the margin of error is actually fairly high. Instead, football said they need it more accurate, consistent and quick and even though the tech companies said the requirements were impossible to meet and it seemed that way as in the open test sessions every solution failed multiple times but footballs big business so these companies kept refinding their tech and we soon had a situation where multiple solutions all passes. And because of that GLT is brilliant, it doesn't disrupt the game as its quick, its consistent no matter the location of the goal it happens or the height the ball is at and the margin of error is tiny.

    And that's the kind of requirements all tech in football should have to abide by. VAR fails on pretty much every count, it's slow, it still involves a massive amount of opinion and its not even able to be used consistently.

    There is alot of upcoming tech that it would have been better off holding off on VAR and putting the money and resources into that. For example, a lot of clubs data analysis departments currently use player tracking of both training and matches. While its not used live during the matches its certainly something it could do, infact the NFL has been using it in matches on a test basis. This would, for example, potentially allow an instant decision on offsides. Maybe even accurately than a person as it can even use algorithms to decide when a person who is offside is interfering which for the officials is difficult and even for a VAR official ends up being opinion as they have no hard data to decide. Another area it could resolve is if a foul in or outside the box as it would have exact data on where the players are.

    Tech can be great for sport but the question always has to be asked if the tech in question is right for each sport. Just because its right for one doesn't mean its right for another
     
  5. How

    How Knows Football
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    The problem with it is the extra official sees all the action on a slow mo replay. Every bit of contact or touch of the hand for handball looks blatant when it’s slowed down to slow mo.

    It should be used for offsides as that should be clear, however I don’t think that’s ready yet either. The angle isn’t always right they use and someone can look offside on one and not the other.


    It’s been rushed in and isn’t working imo.
     
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  6. Bantam-in-Greece

    Bantam-in-Greece Well-Known Member
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    Would have got us another point at Sunderland though! :)
     
    #6 Bantam-in-Greece, Jun 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  7. Onside

    Onside Well-Known Member
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    Needs a considerable amount of work in my view. The goal Lingard scored his toe nail was offside. Other rules are being ignored, like giving the attacking team the benefit, and a clear and obvious error are a couple that are being ignored. They need to watch the cricket the umpire is still in charge and even though the tracking has the ball hitting the wickets if it is only just clipping it is still what the onfield umpire has given.

    I don’t like the age we have to wait for the flag to go up even though it obvious, then the massive inquest that takes place eating up time, if it takes more than a minute forget it, the clear and obvious error comes in. The hand ball incidents are now a joke.
     
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  8. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Cricket only has the umpire overrule on certain situations because the Hawkeye system they use, like the one in Tennis has a significant margin of error because both sports did what Football didn’t do with with Hawkeye and they rushed to add it rather than wait until it was almost perfect. It’s that rushing that’s the problem now with VAR, they didn’t bother to work out if it was fit for purpose or wait for it to become fit for purpose.

    On the offside situation with Lingard the problem with video is it just can’t get macro enough with the footage to know when the ball is played. If you move it back just a fraction of a second Lingard is on but you really can’t tell the exact moment the pass was made. It’s somewhat guess work. It’s why other tech would do a much better job if only football gave the people developing such tech a real motivation to get it ready like they did when they developed the requirements that GLT would need to meet. Player tracking and maybe combined with some kind of sensor on the ball itself would clear up offsides and provide and instant answer
     
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  9. Onside

    Onside Well-Known Member
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    Yes that is true, I think it is where the seam on the ball hits the wicket, if the seam is on the outside of the wicket it becomes an umpire decision and within the context of the game. Mind you this latest innovation with lights on the wickets is becoming a talking point, although it takes the tech forward ie as soon as the bails are disturbed it lights up, but on several incidents in this World Cup the ball has hit the wickets quite hard and the bails have not come off. On one occasion the lights came on and the bails didn’t come off. The rule is they have to come off as it has happened before but very rarely, I was wondering is all this tech making them heavier?

    The GLT is very good and there is no argument from me on this, I think VAR is not right atm and the officials on field appear to be negating their role.
     
  10. trevor

    trevor Well-Known Member
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    I think VAR has its faults but only by using and refining the technology will it be got right, The worrying thing about it is that it still involves a human opinion watching the screen and determining the outcome which in some cases would just be better letting the officials on the pitch who see it live make the decision
     
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  11. Onside

    Onside Well-Known Member
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    The thing about the Lingard non goal is that we have no idea whether the linesman gave it or not as they are not allowed! My view is that very few would have given that as offside. @SimonW says, you can’t detect with any accuracy the release of the ball.
     
  12. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    You can't really 'refine' video that much though, it's an old tech and there aren't really many improvements you can make. About the only thing you could do is make it 8k footage filmed in high frame rate to allow more clarity and granularity in isolating the frames but not only will that mean it takes longer to make a decision but 8K HFR cameras are ridiculously expensive, broadcasting that out to the VAR control centre requires a massive amount of bandwidth and when it reaches the VAR centre they need 8K HFR monitors which certainly aren't available on the consumer market and if they are available commercially will cost a hundreds of thousands at the very least and they will need multiple ones. And all that expense only results in a tiny improvement.

    It's why the NFL who have used video replays for ages have been experimenting with other tech because VAR makes way too many mistakes and isn't going to improve all that much. And that's with a sport where most decisions are much more clear cut than Football (And the nature of the game with it being play-based means its much quicker to generate the replays)
     
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  13. How

    How Knows Football
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    It’s getting to the point where linesman aren’t calling offsides anymore. I mean what? They were very very good at it and it’s such a skill I think to call it. At the top level they rarely get one wrong.

    VAR will spoil the game. It’s the penalties and all subjective decisions they are messing up. Handball always looks worse in super slow mo. It always looks deliberate. Same with any contact in the box. Slowed down it always looks worse. Let the ref do what he’s paid very well to do. I’d say use it for offsides if it becomes clear and the angles are better in the grounds. And for anything missed like violent conduct off of the ball (Suarez biting for example)
     
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  14. trevor

    trevor Well-Known Member
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    Next season all handball in the area by a defender will be a penalty, Accidental hand ball has been done away with so i guess handball will be easier for VAR
     
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  15. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    No, it hasn't. It's only a handball if the arm extended beyond a ‘natural silhouette’ to make themselves ‘unnaturally bigger’

    if it hits your hand and its down by your side its not handball
     
  16. How

    How Knows Football
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    Are these new rule changes for all leagues?
     
  17. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    It’s an IFAB change so it’s the whole of football
     
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  18. Bronco

    Bronco Well-Known Member
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    Our players cant hit the net from 2 yards no chance of hitting an opposition defenders arm.
     
  19. Skyebantam

    Skyebantam Well-Known Member

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    Fookin joke it is :laughing:
     
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  20. trevor

    trevor Well-Known Member
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    Will be very entertaining in the Premier league this coming season, Match of the day may take all night with all the controversies of the VAR decisions discussed and talked over
     

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