VAR

Very much so, like last week against City, but losing the spontaneity is a huge thing when you watch a game live, it's a big part of the experience.

 

think the problem arises with the mentality of football fans, managers and media. Before VAR the footballing public struggled to deal with a vital reality in football. The reality being a) most laws are interpretative in football and b) some poor sod has to make a decision. Managers on the receiving end of a 50/50 decision going against them would forever berate and crucify officials for their decision. The officiating bodies have buckled and relented to VAR and started to make rules that are non interpretative to satisfy demands for 'consistency'. By and large in other sports the public have accepted the reality that the man in the middle has to make a decision and you just get on with it, even when it doesn't go your way.

The referees did do an incredible job. At the top level you'd be lucky to name more than a handful of decisions each season that we're universally condemned.

Now we have VAR there is even more demand for consistency. A lot of the complaints about the way VAR is being used on here are symptomatic of fans thinking they are talking sense but a lot of it falls down when you think it through in terms of how these suggestions play out in practise. The one that makes me tear my hair out is when people say 'it should only be used for clear and obvious'. Sounds sensible in theory but it would lead to total chaos. It would be a matter of weeks before you were getting managers crying about how their decision that wasn't reversed was more 'clear and obvious' than the one 3 weeks ago. Somebody has to make a decision about what constitutes 'clear and obvious' and that's why they are avoiding VAR on any interpretative decisions, like whether or not a foul has taken place, like Rodri at the weekend.

Some fans might say 'well they need to make sure the laws are applied consistently'. The problem is - you can't! Take a defensive handball for example. You can talk about silhouettes and natural positions and ball to hand etc as much as you like - you will never have 2 handball that are identical and you can't expect referees to mentally spool through every previous decision that season to attempt to get close to consistency. I wouldn't be surprised if they buckle again under the demands from idiotic fans for consistency, throw the towel in and say 'fine! If it hits your arm it's a handball'. The law would get rightly criticised.

As above though, the football World has to accept, you can either have laws that fit the game but require interpretation and inconsistency, or laws that are stupid but easy to apply consistently.

Your reference to other sports is useful in that an appeals system would solve a lot of problems. Put the onus for appeal on the managers.

The biggest problem overall is the celebration issue. However I think the handball incidents will be very rare and the officials have been freakishly unlucky having had 2 to deal with in the first weeks of the prem season. From now on I think most disallowed goals will be marginal handball and any fan worth their salt will know when there is a suspicion of offside anyway.

 

Bloody hell, may as well blame the referee for blowing the whistle for kick off if someone breaks their leg.

 

I'm just pointing out somebody will get injured after an offside where the assistant did not raise the flag and it will get blamed on the advisory not to raise the flag promptly. A slightly different scenario will be events that take place before play is called back for a VAR penalty the ref misses. What if someone gets a second yellow for a basic foul (not violent) and sent off but play gets called back for a penalty that took place before? A second goal would be scrubbed off so consistency says a second yellow should be too. Have they already thought things through enough to rule on such things? I think they've rushed this through too quickly and should have trialled more.

I preferred reliance on refs myself, and thought many in the past were great, but the constant rule changes and top-down diktat mean they struggle a bit more. However, part of what made the game great was the occasional controversy and how the teams and crowd reacted to it. I think VAR is sterilising football because of money. Some people might like that but I don't. Don't expect me to hold back in criticising it.

I wish this thread would get some more coverage. I'd like to know if its 2:1 against VAR on a bigger vote. Any chance it could be stickied to the City forum for a bit?

 

Yeah the scenario you put forward is interesting. Sorry for being facetious on the injury one but I don't think the ref or lino would get blamed for an injury.

I agree with the point about controversy but unfortunately pressure from managers demanding that high stakes decision are correct has brought us to this point.

 

I'd particularly like to know the experiences of folk who've actually been to games where it's in use.

 

If players weren't such a set of cheating shits, VAR wouldn't be necessary.

 

Another club poll, also nearly 2:1 against.

https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?374829-Right-then-After-that-demonstration-VAR-Yes-or-No/page60

 

But only 55% against

 

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2019/08/26/new-handball-rules-leading-to-more-criticism-of-var-in-germany/

 

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2019/08/31/utterly-clueless-these-fans-react-as-var-admits-they-made-a-mistake-despite-reviewing-footage/

I don’t think that anything or anyone else introduced to the Premier League has managed to have it’s name chanted at all 20 grounds despite only featuring in four rounds of matches. The “f*ck VAR” chant is becoming increasingly used and the flawed system was exposed yet again today.

 

For me, I think VAR works and does the job it’s meant to do. Personally, I didn’t want it and still don’t want it. I like the ups and downs of a season and referee decisions are all part of the drama of football. However, many people wanted it and I doubt it will ever go away.

I think the biggest issue with VAR is that it has highlighted some issues with the laws of the game. For instance the offside rule being any ball playing body part (even a toe) which would previously have never been picked up by a linesman. Similarly with the handball rule, being any contact with an arm/hand leading to a goal. Both the Man City goal and Wolves goal that were ruled out by VAR we’re correct decisions but it put the strange handball rule under the spotlight. I think IFAB need to start thinking of redefining some of the rules because, with VAR, the way a game is refereed has changed and therefore the rules need to change with it.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/current-var-situation-untenable-in-premier-league-and-consensus-needed-insists-expgmol-chief-keith-a4226596.html

 

VAR is full of problems, some obvious decisions that should be reviewed are not and some that are obviously right are reviewed, The offside decisions are a disgrace where a player is judged offside by inches when moving at speed, The flaw in that is that if the reviewer moves the frame back one frame he is onside or forward one frame offside, This despite the technology not been able to accurately determine when the players foot made contact with the ball, A small error factor allowing for the contact with the ball would help get the decisions better,

The fact is that we have referees judging other referees by VAR and some are just not up to the job and are reluctant to overturn a colleague despite obvious mistakes

 

On Saturday in Leicester v Spurs we saw VAR used correctly and incorrectly.

Leicester scored a goal that was ruled out for offside that was clear and it was missed by the linesman. That is a clear and obvious mistake, it took about 10seconds to look at and to correct.

The Spurs goal that was disallowed. If something takes 2 minute to make up your mind on it is not clear and it is not obvious so allow the call on the field to stand. They do this in cricket and they do this is rugby. Sometimes things will not be clear cut so you have to respect the original decision.

VAR is refereeing the game at present, not kicking out clear and obvious decisions because I have seen various clear penalties ignored by VAR and going back to Leicester the potential ankle breaker on Callum Wilson was looked at by VAR and ignored, yet Son is offside and a goal that comes off 10seconds of addition play with 3 Spurs players touching the ball is ruled out.

 

I think it’s clear and obvious that VAR is crap.

 

VAR got a lot of flak on Match of the Day. There were some bad decisions so they were insisting refs should use monitors provided even if it takes more time. Not one ref has referenced a pitchside monitor this season and remote monitor room refs frequently refuse to overturn field ref's decisions when they are wrong. So what it the point?

MoTD criticism was restrained. There was lots more criticism on Radio 5's phone-in from fans. Besides the wrong decisions, they claim the delays spoil the game and affect the emotional reactions from fans and players, actually altering how the game flows. One fan said he hated the delays and emotional distortion of the technology so much that he'd stopped going to games. It seemed an excessive reaction but I sympathise.

I still hate VAR as it is being used. It's about big clubs and money and not about fans' or players' enjoyment. We go to football to escape the annoying aspects of those at the top trying to micromanage our lives (with excessive rules and technology) but now their spoiling our game with it. You can see some pundits and managers are saying they support it through gritted teeth because their bosses are saying they have to. They should go back to experimenting with just cup games or similar until they get a better result.

 

Man u get a lucky VAR goal today, foul in the build up but it doesnt matter, goal given.