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VAR

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Park bantam, Jun 10, 2019.

?

VAR

  1. Good

    12 vote(s)
    23.5%
  2. Bad

    39 vote(s)
    76.5%
  1. Aleman

    Aleman Fringe Player

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    As with most BBC articles, the readers' comments paint a much more realistic picture than the image the article projects.
     
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  2. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    So all season any minor touch witth the hand or arm has seen VAR rule the goal out, then you have McBurnie who sure would have been harsh as he wasn't trying to have it touch his arm gets away witth it. One of the reasons given for VAR was consistency but it really hasn't. We will see the same thing happen at some other point this season and they will go back to zero tolerance and disallow it.
     
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  3. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    its gonna take some sorting out. Without VAR the McBurnie goal stands every time, it should still stand even with VAR but they've backed themselves into a corner with the stance they've taken on it so far. Personally i'd do away with it.
     
  4. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Except with VAR it shouldn't have stood. There has been less contact with the arm or hand this season that has seen it ruled out. With attackers they have been taking a zero tolerance approach (but not for defenders who can almost throw their arm at a ball) but not here. If you are going to go zero tolerance at the start of the season even if its the wrong decision it should be stuck with all season, you can't change part way through the season or maybe worse not apply that zero tolerance in just one game
     
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  5. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Thats the problem with VAR. Thats never a penalty, a ref would have never given that. Its hit him on the upper chest /shoulder area. like i said, i'd do away with it, its killing the game watching players having to wait to celebrate.
     
  6. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    It was never going to be a pen as he was in the opponets box :)

    But it hit him lower shoulder, upper arm
     
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  7. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    It wasn't given, therefore it did not hit his arm.
     
  8. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Except it did which is where the problem lies. It wasn't given for 'not being a clear and obvious mistake' but clear and obvious hasn't applied on attacking handballs all season
     
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  9. bantam65

    bantam65 Important Player
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    Man Utd fan by any chance?
     
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  10. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Yes but it's not impacting my thoughts. If this was last season I would have been fine about it, it wasn't intentional and it was in that area where the contact with the arm is fairly minor to a point where it should be given BUT we aren't in last season. There have been goals disallowed for hitting that same area between the arm and shoulder and goals disallowed for it clipping a finger but not changing the direction of the ball. They have set out all season saying that its zero tolerance for attackers. The VAR decision wasn't that there was no offence, just that it wasn't a clear and obvious one and thats going against the standaed set down. If we are going to use such a poor system then atleast keep it consistent.
     
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  11. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    Did it? Or was it the shoulder?

    Im not debating, I've only seen it on a big screen in the boozer and it was pretty fuzzy so hard to tell. The lack of commentary in thr pub also made it awkward to know what ease going on.
     
  12. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Problem is there is no clear evidence to prove either way therefore a penalty cannot be awarded.
     
  13. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    It was in Man Utds box. Not even Butterfield could argue it was a penalty.
     
  14. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    It certainly does touch his shoulder but the shoulder is a fairly small area and if you don't get it perfect it's then touching the arm. If you look below he makes contact at the bottom of his shoulder, pretty much in that position where your shoulder, chest and arm meet

    Screenshot 2019-11-24 at 22.34.21.png

    If it hadn't been established that with VAR and attacking handballs that it was zero tolerance then I feel it should have been given, He tries to get his arm as far away as he can but he doesn't get his stoop low enough to hit it square on his shoulder so it touches his arm and that does give him an advantage (he he stooped lower his body isn't in the right shape)

    I'm all in favour of getting rid of zero-tolerance, if its a situation like that or it doesn't really change the flight of the ball in any signficant way (like clipping a finger) I'm all in favour of that but not part way through a season. A season should be played with the same rules throughout. It's like Wimbledon deciding in the 2nd week switch to 'No Let' on serves
     
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  15. Aleman

    Aleman Fringe Player

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    I managed to freeze it at exactly that point but from behind the goal. It does not look to touch his body at all after popping up off his thigh - not his chest or his shoulder. I've watched it about 40 times. Also, the shadow in your freeze frame suggests it is slightly off his body, too. That's not handball. However, a few milliseconds before that, as he pulls his arm back to stop it with his thigh, it looks quite possible it flicks onto his hand as it pops up - but I just cannot tell at the frame rate on this video.

    (At 2:14)



    Anyway. Do keep arguing about it. I f*(!i"g hate VAR and the w@"!*^s that brought it in and defend it.
     
    #116 Aleman, Nov 24, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  16. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    handball.gif

    Slowed it down. It's not the best angle as you lose some of the depth which skews it a bit but it certainly hits something as the ball changes direction and it loosk to me on this and others its that area of upper arm, lower shoulder and upper chest making it 1 part handball, 2 parts legal contact
     
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  17. Aleman

    Aleman Fringe Player

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    Thanks. OK, it does not pop onto his hand from his thigh. And I still think it does not hit his upper arm but will admit I'm not certain. It's odd how it does not look to hit the top of his arm but maybe might hit his hand at normal speed, yet looks like it might his upper arm but not his hand in slow motion.

    Another oddity is that Maguire's head drops and he does not appeal. It's the other Man U players that have obscured views that appeal. Anyway, I would not give it but I can't say it definitely did not happen.
     
  18. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    This sums up the problem with VAR pretty well, if you can’t day for definite that the ball did indeed hit his arm then the goal should stand. Even on here its clear we can’t agree on it which casts doubt as to whether it did or not.
     
  19. Aleman

    Aleman Fringe Player

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    VAR missed a Boufal handball in the assist for Southampton's first goal, today. They said nobody would have seen it yet I spotted it during the 2nd replay angle in the game highlights and not the obscure analysis angle chosen later on by the MOTD panel where they excused VAR for missing it. They pointed out that Watford have now lost out 3 times to incorrect VAR decisions. If a club is still losing out so badly to incorrect decisions, what is the point of spoiling the game with it and bringing in stupid rules like automatic handball for strikers but not defenders. VAR stinks. If I was a Watford fan, I'd be organising something equally incorrect and smelly outside FA offices in London - maybe one pile for each injustice!.
     
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