Under achieving

Spot on again. Timing and approach is key.

EDIT - perhaps an even bigger opportunity is the missed trick of getting the fans who attend regularly to put more money into the club. I go to just about every home game. I spend very little - but I'm happy to spend. The food and drinks are crap. There's nothing to interest my son before a game (or during it!!). We could be doing much, much more to make it an enjoyable experience and to get people spending.

Even something as simple as producing a kit that's decent on the eye. Last season's kit was awful - I don't really wear football tops, but I've seen much fewer people wearing it than the previous years. We've clearly sold far fewer.

 

You're thinking like i'm thinking. We've just had the shittest season i can remember and fans have stuck by them. And its not because of the price, its because theres a solid base of fans now who back this club. They'll pay more for success alright.

 

I keep seeing people that I suspect might be misunderstanding the point, saying that if we do increase prices now there'd be a major drop off.... yes. we know. that's not in dispute. because fans have been programmed that this is the price now, and save for a miraculous up turn in our fortunes this will remain the case.

our fans stopped attending, and that's why prices were dropped in the first place. a generation of supporters have now come to accept that we're a lower league team, that has big gates, and think its something to be proud of.
we have big gates because the same people that now attend because its dirt cheap, stopped going because we werent any good. it's all a vicious circle and I can't see a way out.

 

I think the way out has to be well-timed, incremental price increases over a period of probably 3-4 years. It'll need investment from Rupp first and foremost, because the trigger point has to be success on the pitch and demonstration that we have a capable, trustworthy management setup around the club. Deliver a bit of success, increase prices, reinvest, repeat. slow, steady, sustainable. Its a cultural/mindset thing, and that always takes time to change.

 

So surely the whole thing about the fans accepting mediocrity isn't right? You've admitted the main factor is investment is the owner investing. Udders got to the Prem using the same model, the difference the owner backed them.... Would you say the Udders fans accept mediocrity because of the price they pay for their STs?

 

Huddersfield are historically a way more successful club than us, i'd say no.

 

But based on the logic of cheap season tickets, they could achieve more if the prices were higher but they still purchase so surely on that basic they are accepting mediocrity?

 

They didn't need to raise prices, they have 2 years worth of riches from the premier league gravy train. I think their prices were £199 at their lowest in the prem. We do not have that luxury.

 

Which is what I'm saying RT - it comes from the owner backing them not the fans.

 

Just to be clear, my 'mediocrity' comments aren't aimed at any one specific individual. Its a mindset thing that I think pervades en masse and has for a while. I don't think its intrinsically linked to ticket pricing - I think its been so long since we were a genuinely, quality side, and we've endured so much adversity, that the attitude of being grateful just to have a club rather than setting a higher bar for expectations has become deeply entrenched.

 

I understand what you're saying FB - I just don't see it as widespread as you think it is and I don't understand how we've accepted anything that's all. We need an owner to back us, the ticket price is largely irrelevant as it's been proven it works/

 

It can come from both, or either. If we had an owner willing to subsidise the cost of improving the side, the infrastructure and the experience for fans, indefinitely, then I wouldn't be arsed if the tickets were given away. But we don't. And we can't expect to continue paying near half the going rate for tickets whilst believing that the model will take us forward. You generally get what you pay for.

I'd like us to be talking about a sustainable plan over the next ~5 years to turn this club into a viable championship outfit. Our ground, pitch, squad, training setup, scouting, coaching and back office staff all need some element of investment. And some of it will probably need to - and probably should - come from supporters.

 

- how can we be more demanding as you put it? Boo them off the pitch? I’ve heard quite a few chants if you’re not fit to wear the shirt this season for example.

- Rupp has openly confirmed he will keep putting money in to cover the shortfall. What have you heard that’s different to that? He’s covered this season and will next by the looks of things.

- you cannot use Cullen. He wasn’t our player and loans will always go back to their parent club. The rest we lost because of Rahic not willing to budge on what was offered due to age and also a few wanting to go. Marshall wanted to go down south and Meredith wanted championship football. Wyke went almost a year later to Sunderland. And for decent money for his performances this season. But again. Now Rahic has gone that should change.

- not plural. We have had Warnock call out the food side. And Grayson moan about it being shared and also wanting a perimeter fence built.

We all want what’s best for the club. But as I keep saying, we will get the best with giving the right manager the right tools to succeed. Not by fans “demanding more”

 

I hear what you're saying FB I do, football is a cash cow and needs money from somewhere beyond what a bit of extra revenue beyond a slight increase in ST sales. This model works and I'll be honest, I like the model we have. When things are going well the ground is absolutely rocking and not many better places to be on a Saturday, we've had bad management for the last 18 months and it's only know things are being brought up for me they are only being raised on the back of a terrible 18 months. Under PP we were making progression, their was a plan, it worked. I hope SR can fix himself up and back GB, the rumours coming out we will be competitive next season, why is what you are asking for.

 

I’m sorry but there wasn’t a plan under PP. There was a very good manager who kept the same squad of players and got the most out of what he had.

Every summer we were told of deficit this and deficit that. We had to sell our best players then too. Wells for example and cup runs and ex youth players kept the budget competitive. Everything went into the first team at a detriment to a longer term strategy and background investment. The fans had to invest to get the scoreboard updated and changing rooms sorted as far as I remember.

What was the plan then that was so grand and forward thinking?

I am not distracting the job lawn and Rhodes did but history is clouding it. It’s nothinf like the plan faithful bantam wants

 

When the performances are as abject as they've been this season, yes, absolutely. And not just in the last 6 weeks of the season when our fate is already nailed on. I guarantee you, there'll be some who stay behind tomorrow and applaud the players off.

The subtext around Rupp covering the debt this season is that it was entirely unexpected. Rahic left and then the financial mess was revealed - out of obligation and shame, Rupp has agreed to cover that shortfall. There's no indication whatsoever that this shortfall was planned, or part of a longer term growth plan that involves continual financial subsidy by Rupp.

Possibly, but only time will tell. I'll settle for getting some players that are actually worth retaining in the short term.

They're not mutually exclusive. As long as we make the likes of Brunker cult hero's, and tolerate the likes of Chicksen, NKP, O'Connor, Akpan, Wright flouncing about on the pitch, we're accepting of dross. I remember back to the Gillingham away arse-handing. NKP gave up after 65 mins. Literally stopped trying to mark Eaves. After their 3rd or 4th goal he turned to O'Donnell who lost his rag, and smiled. He should never have been allowed to play for this club again and should have been lambasted by fans. The antics of O'Connor - in the game after armbandgate, there were a handful of half hearted boos. That was it. Then it was all about 'get behind him, we need to support the lads through this relegation fight'. Bollocks to that - he should've been run out of town. Akpan, continually bottling 50/50s. Chicksen, a regular embarrassment to the shirt. EVERYONE around the club should demand higher standards - and be vocal when we fall below those standards.

 

I'd disagree mate, from memory they were very few times they were in our league or below and during my teenage years they were mostly in League 1, League 2 which is now the Premiership and Championship.

 

Spot On
Our marketing and PR have been as weak as the shambles on the pitch

 

Surely the plan was to invest more than what we could and try to recoup from cup runs - o. I genuinely don't understand the outcry, besides the cheap ticket model we are doing what most clubs do, football simple. Good manager and good players win you games.

 

Agree with you. Just don’t get this whole fans accepting it line that’s come out in last few weeks