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UK Politics

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Bronco, May 5, 2021.

  1. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    I can confirm that the stories you have heard match my direct experience. And, in the rare case that someone had to leave, it was with a massive pay off. Not that such matters are confined to the public sector.
     
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  2. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    I suppose the problem with sacking anyone is that you can not just sack someone for being rubbish.
    It is usually just for gross misconduct. Other misconduct issues you would need to go through warnings etc . For competence reasons you would have to go through process of offering support, retraining etc before getting rid so for those at the top end it is better for the company/body to pay them off rather than go through the long process which could be detrimental to them over the year or so it would take
     
  3. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    What's the actual benefit for the public though? If any get sacked they'll only be replaced by someone equally as corruptable.

    Meanwhile millions and millions of pounds that could actually benefit the public are being handed over to yet more extremely rich people.

    Surely you can see the irony in most of the reasoning behind demanding the inquiry?
     
  4. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Nothing positive has ever come from these inquiries. I'll ask again, who has ever been prosecuted off the back of one? Even worse when you find how much they actually cost to do what exactly? Tell us what we already knew.
     
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  5. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    It’s not primarily about sackings. Although, hopefully, most of those responsible for the horrific shitshow will indeed get deservedly sacked off at the next general election. The primary benefit is in lessons learned for future crises. That can only be maximised by forensically examining and uncovering exactly what was done, not done, should have been done or not done etc. That’s because the politicians, their special advisors (and to some extent the senior officials) are not going to voluntarily describe or explain what went on, because of its negative impact on their political careers. So it has to be a legal enquiry with powers to compel evidence.

    One thing to bear in mind is that what we are currently seeing/hearing is only the first of six modules, focused on political decision-making. Because of the subject matter it’s obviously going to contain a lot of shock horror tittle tattle, but that’s by the by really. I actually do think it’s important to reveal to the country the sheer depth and breadth of the incompetence, hubris and dysfunction at the heart of the Johnson government and how badly they let us down. As this article makes clear, thousands of dedicated people around the country were taking serious life and death decisions every day and making the best plans they could, whilst (wrongly) assuming that those at the top were doing likewise:
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/03/covid-inquiry-leaders-petty-preoccupations-fury-secret-consultant?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    There are five other modules to the enquiry- Preparedness, Impact on Healthcare, Vaccines, Procurement, Care Sector. All of these will undoubtedly reveal valuable lessons in what worked and what (mostly) didn’t. This was the single biggest national crisis since WW2. For most people this was a once in a lifetime event. It’s not disproportionate to devote significant time and money to unpick such a seismic episode in order to inform future generations and governments how to do it better if/when faced with similar future crises.
     
    #565 Offcomedun, Nov 3, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2023
  6. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    The one thing that I have seen from watching bits is the whole government machinery, cabinet, advisors, civil service, the whole lot didn’t have a plan for anything but day to day routine.

    imagine not having anything in place in case the leader of country was incapacitated.
     
  7. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    I told you , 'lessons learned'. Until.the next time where it will once again be ' lessons will be learned'.
    Never responsible for anything should be the motto.
     
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  8. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    But the last Labour government did have some pandemic plans in place. The Tories let them fall into disrepair and completely disregarded a report around 2017 that detailed how unprepared the country was for any kind of disaster response.
    The Labour plan was anticipating some kind of flu epidemic, not Covid (obviously) so it wouldn’t have been sufficient. But at least it would have been some basis to build a response plan onto. Instead we got a government that crossed its fingers and hoped it would all go away, until forced to act by the sheer weight of infections and unexpected deaths.
    You cynically believe that all politicians are the same - self centred feckless and untrustworthy. But they’re not all like that. Some are actually grown-ups who take the job seriously. It’s imperative that we learn lessons so that a more responsible future government (and almost anyone would be more responsible than Johnson’s rabble) can have a solid basis for future disaster planning.
     
  9. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    You call it cynical. I call it 50 years experience of the real world. You already know my thoughts on previous and present governments and the public services. Where we agree is that funding has been cut to criminally low levels. But then i wouldn't trust any of them to run things right even if we gave them the money the desperately want, it would simply be thrown away on batshit crazy schemes like capital of culture.
     
  10. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    He's definitely not the only one.
     
  11. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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  12. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    In fairness, the Cameron Govt initiated its own review of how the country would respond to a major epidemic. They established Project Cygnus which was a full simulation of what might happen if there was a virus-based pandemic impacting the UK. It obviously didn't anticipate a new threat such as Covid but was based on a flu-type virus. It involved thousands drawn from the NHS, military, public health, Govt departments such as transport and employment, many sectors of the private sector and so. It took a number of years to complete and produce the report and the recommendations. It was during May's Govt when the recommendations of how to deal with it were presented to the Cabinet. Despite the recommendations that we had to build up a stock of PPE, had to increase the ICU capacity in the NHS, had to put more into researching vaccine strategies, feck all happened. Its findings were just about ignored because there was another major issue which had to be resolved and would take up most of the political time. That turned out to be a major mistake .. on both fronts!

    You can see how some of the recommendations from Cygnus had a straight read across to the way we handled Covid. But it certainly wasn't a perfect one. I guess that when the Covid inquiry gets around to the Preparedness stage, there'll be a focus on Project Cygnus and why it was kicked into the long grass and why once again our politicians chose to avoid such a threat.
     
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  13. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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  14. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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  15. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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  16. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    You should be pleased Tony. There was a commentator from one of the Conservative thinktanks on the radio earlier discussing the latest changes. Let's say she was less than enthusiastic with Sunak's leadership. Having spoken to a few prominent conservatives (without naming anybody of course!), she believes that the biggest beneficiary will be the Reform Party. You'll just have to be patient. ;)
     
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  17. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    I hope so, I know Reform can't win but they will get my vote knowing Labour will walk it as there is nothing to choose now between the 2 main parties, the country is sinking, can't imagine how bad it could be in the not too distant future..........................only Farage could save us .....
     
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  18. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    Imagine what a state the country must be in if that's our only option.
     
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  19. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Stronger, safer, more prosperous....what's not to like... ?
     
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  20. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    I've been talking to a lad who works at the place I'm doing some work at, Algerian lad. Lovely fella, funny how he mentioned to me he felt safer in Algeria than he did on the streets of the UK.
     
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