Most liked posts in thread: Racist Bulgarian Fans

The comments of the Bulgarian manager reported after the game were beyond belief!

I don't know what is the best way forward on this issue. There were very few Bulgarian fans in the stadium as a punishment for previous incidents but that didn't put a stop to the racist chants and the straight arm salutes. If UEFA and the Bulgarian FA want to make a stand and draw a line in the sand, I'd start by sacking the manager because of his post-match comments and who did nothing to distance himself from the fans' racist behaviour. I'd argue that he condoned the fans' behaviour. It might be regarded as unfair in some quarters but a strong point has to be made by the Bulgarians.

 

As I said previously on this subject taking action against a countries FA is a totally pointless, counter productive and ridiculous thing (unless obviously it’s something they are doing). Most of the countries it happens in it’s happening because they basically don't have a black population and it’s stemmed from the fear of things that are different/unusual that is part of the human makeup.

A countries FA can’t change this, it’s a long term cultural shift that comes from exposing the people to different races and ideally to positive representations of these different races as well. Football and sport in general can be part of the solution as it’s a good way of exposing people to these different races doing something aspiring and positive but if we start holding all countries to say our standards all you do is reduce the chances of exposure (either because you shut the stadiums or because you fine them at the level the likes of Danny Rose has wanted that it bankrupts the FA and kills football in that country) and give them something that turns fear into actual hatred and that does nothing but make the situation even worse.

There is certainly no quick fix, look at countries like ourselves where we have a long history of being a mixed race society and we are exposed to non-white sports people, films/tv with non-white people in them, music by non-white artists etc etc on a daily basis. Getting as far as we have hasn’t been done quickly and we are no where near perfect so a country with almost no black population certainly isn’t going to change culturally overnight and not by punishing groups who on their own can’t change things

 

The Congleton incident refers to a North West Counties League match between Congleton Town and Padiham. A report on the incident can be found here Non-league Padiham FC fined for leaving pitch in protest at racist abuse here.

Before our football authorities try to take any high ground, perhaps someone should ask them why they punished the victims, Padiham, in similar circumstances. Oh, and I suspect a few will remember the Donovan Ricketts red card as well (https://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/104-Race/1405-red-card-for-abuse).

Our football authorities have still not got their act together. The incident in Bulgaria needs to be a wake up call, and a line in the sand, for all.

 

85% are Native Caucasian Bulgarians. 8.8% are Caucasian Turks, 4.9% Caucasian Roma. The remaining 0.7% are made up of 40 minority groups (most of which would be classified as Caucasians). So this idea that most regularly see non-Caucasians is factually wrong. There are a few tourist areas where it’s more common and you might see some around the universities but when you consider there are parts of England where where you might not mix with many black people when Black or mixed race makes up 5 percentage of the population then most Bulgarians aren’t encountering them at all

 

I said 'can be blinkered' not that it’s always blinkered. A black guy gets shot robbing a bank at gun point and Black Lives Matter are calling for the offices badge.

Most police shootings happen when someone is committing a violent crime and there is a disproportionate number of violent crimes committed by the Black community. Also assaults on police are more common by the Black community so naturally approaching a black person the cops are going to be more on edge which is not going to be helpful especially if the person starts acting irate (which because of the perception of racism in the police is more likely). Black areas also have bigger issues with gangs and the illegal guns (and gang shootings) that go along with that.

So police shootings in the US are a much more complex situation that the likes of BLM ignore when they label any shooting of a Black guy as a racist. When you are ignoring other factors because you are too close it that’s blinkered and problematic as some of the causes simply don't get dealt with

 

If I get time I'll hunt out sources for the rest but I don't have time to find the articles about it and then find the actual report on it and then hunt through the report right now. (Not helped by news outlets either not linking directly to the report or the link no longer working) But as you can see the Black population of the US is 12% and the percentage of violent crimes committed by Blacks is 21.7%.

I would also add that studies such as the one mentioned here actually found adding more diversity to the police force actually didn't reduce shootings, ethnic minority police were more likely to shoot other ethnic minorities that white people because as the study concludes much of it is related to the type of crimes committed in the areas where shootings are more likely to happen rather than racial motivations (Unless the premise is that Black cops are racist towards black people).

At no point am I saying that there aren't cases of death by cop that seem to be racially motivated, but its way too easy and simplistic to draw the conclusion that because there are some bad apple situations that racism in the police is the only cause.

Last year there were 387 deaths by cop. While per 100k you were more likely to be black in total numbers cops shot more white people than black. As I mentioned and showed in the table above Blacks commit a more violent crime, the article I linked also uses a report that suggests that shootings are related more to the area and the crime that is common in that area. You are generally going to have less violent crime in the leafy suburbs which are mainly white than say somewhere like Compton which is more impoverished and has bigger gang problems where you do get a greater concentration of ethnic minorities and where kids get pulled into gangs at an early age so that does make sense. So why both the number of violent crimes committed and the likelihood of being shot by police does make sense as a bigger reason than racism. And by putting it all down to racism as I said actually both helps make it worse BUT also prevents it getting better.

For starters, the police could be better trained. The average time they spend in the academy is 21 weeks and they are then on the job with a badge and a gun as a rookie police officer. Our police get way more training than that and aren't being handed guns at the end of it. A cop pulling a gun is as likely to escalate a situation, especially if the person is also armed as it is to deescalate it, our police without having a gun to goto would defuse many of the situations but the US police don't have the training to do that, the gun is seen as an easy way of doing it.

But then talking of things escalating being told that police shoot black people routinely just for being black can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. A white guy gets stopped by a cop unless they are doing something illegal they are more likely to be reasonably calm. Fill someone's head with the idea that they stand a good chance of being shot and they either end up acting shifty which is more likely to cause the cops to get twitchy or they get confrontational. Both make something happening more likely and when it does it feeds the belief. There needs to be a clear line between people shot because they were committing a crime and those who were innocent so these middle ground ones where its more situation rather than one side being totally in the wrong are less likely to happen.

There are those and so many other factors that go into creating the situation and as long as people just shift the blame and don't all pull in the same direction its always going to be 1 step forward 2 steps back. It needs a joined-up plan with multiple entities all pulling in the same direction for the common good. because like most things in life its a more complex situation than people like to make out

 

Certainly not saying he is right but unless you watch lots of Bulgarian club football you can’t really say he is wrong either. Look at Italy where you have the reverse problem, it’s rife in club football but doesn’t really rear it’s head for the national team