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Racist Bulgarian Fans

Discussion in 'General Football' started by Idlebantam, Oct 14, 2019.

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  1. WilsdenBantam

    WilsdenBantam Squad Player
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    Sadly we have a lot of idiotic fans, don’t think it’s the first time sure we did the same against Germany? But it could have been someone else.
     
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  2. XCIV_Bantam

    XCIV_Bantam Squad Player
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    Fair play, but what i keep coming back to is that racism isnt the norm in the Bulgaria or as prolific as found in international games. They do frequently see people of ethic minorities. We are assuming they dont
     
  3. bantamlad92

    bantamlad92 Squad Player
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    This is being blown way out of proportion.

    It was literally 15/16 year olds who probably don’t even know what a Nazi is. To get so upset over some thick school kids is a bit ridiculous.
     
  4. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    No it wasn't.
     
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  5. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Important Player
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    [​IMG]
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    15-16 year olds?
    Tough paper rounds in Sofia obviously
     

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    #45 Interested Bystander, Oct 15, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  6. SimonW

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    85% are Native Caucasian Bulgarians. 8.8% are Caucasian Turks, 4.9% Caucasian Roma. The remaining 0.7% are made up of 40 minority groups (most of which would be classified as Caucasians). So this idea that most regularly see non-Caucasians is factually wrong. There are a few tourist areas where it’s more common and you might see some around the universities but when you consider there are parts of England where where you might not mix with many black people when Black or mixed race makes up 5 percentage of the population then most Bulgarians aren’t encountering them at all
     
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  7. Idlebantam

    Idlebantam Squad Player
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    Im glad the England players stayed on the pitch and finished the game. To me, taking the option of walking off kind of means the racists have won.

    However, to say the incidents were blown out of propotion is madness. If you think it was a bunch of thick schoolboys, I suggest you are either blind or you err on the side of accepting this sort of racism as being okay

    You probably think City fans throwing flares at away games is acceptable too, and that people over react to that
     
  8. XCIV_Bantam

    XCIV_Bantam Squad Player
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    Fair enough. if racism is the norm why did the Bulgarian PM 'encourage' the Bulgarian FA chief to resign?

    Also you go on about education being key, how is there still racist abuse in the UK? Which is one of the best educated countries in the world?

    Which from time to time i might add is aimed at me!
     
  9. bantamlad92

    bantamlad92 Squad Player
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    Ok, forget the schoolkid comment.

    Why is everybody overreacting to the mindless act of a small number of thick young Bulgarian men who likely have no job, money, and probably can't even spell the player's names. It's a tiny, microscopic number and they are clearly dregs of society - you can tell by just looking at them.

    It's a hysteric overreaction which is being pushed by our media and everyone is subconsciously just hopping on the band wagon.

    What do the views of 15-20 thick uneducated poor Bulgarian blokes matter to anyone?
     
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  10. WilsdenBantam

    WilsdenBantam Squad Player
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    You do know this isn’t an isolated incident, and Bulgaria have been punished for racism in the past don’t you? Quick to backtrack on the school boys comment, nothing wrong with people being appalled with such actions imo but each to their own. We’ll never get anywhere with discussing the issue though and just brushing it under the carpet.
     
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  11. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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  12. bantamlad92

    bantamlad92 Squad Player
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    Yeah of course I know they have - it's almost certainly the same guys (Levski fans) or a very similar type of young lads from a similar club.

    Backtracked on the school boys comment because it isn't relevant, 15/16 year olds or 20/21 year olds, they're still thick young uneducated lads - they're not relevant and certainly not worth going all hysterical over.

    I myself am from an ethnic minority and my 'race' have been subject to racist chants from certain clubs/countries and have been subsequently banned and punished for these - we see them for what they are, thick young morons. What arguably makes things worse is everybody going all hell on earth over it, it's not nice being sat at work when everybody's talking about it and constantly reminding you about it.

    What would be better is UEFA dealing with it more stringently - banning the crowd for a number of games for example. For these young lads the football is everything so that will really hit home more than a petty fine to the country's FA.
     
  13. WilsdenBantam

    WilsdenBantam Squad Player
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    It would be interesting to see what the educated liberal left in Germany in the 1920’s thought of some rambling maniac making speeches in pubs in Munich, imagine they laughed it off as a few thickos as well. A dangerous stance to just dismiss Neo Nazi views so easily.

    Not sure what your race has to do with it either, I have heritage from an ethnic minority but don’t see how it’s relevant surely anyone of any race can discuss racism?
     
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  14. TallinnBantam

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    I live in "Eastern Europe". Due to the lack of ethnic minorities here in Estonia (apart from Russians), people don't actually realise they are being racist, because they've not been, or had to, pulled up on it. For example, the word in Estonian for a black person is "Neeger". This is slowly being phased out, but it's still the word used by the older generation, and of course their children. The books kids are being taught to read from, still have that word in the text. When Estonians are told that it's a word that shouldn't be used, they are confused. They are not being racist (per say) they are just using "their" word for a black person.

    The problem we have now, is that people ARE being openly racist in Estonia, because more people of international origin are coming to live here (God knows why - its freezing!). As it's a small country of 1.2 million, the right wing government are stirring up a storm about loss of language and loss of identity, and unfortunately quite a few Estonians are buying it. Plenty of videos of Indians and blacks being abused and told to "go home" on ex pats FB groups are popping up. Not just based on colour either - it's been told to me a few times. It's all about fear really - something that a lot of these former Soviet countries still carry in their DNA.
     
    #54 TallinnBantam, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
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  15. Tolly856

    Tolly856 Squad Player

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    It's a small amount of people inside a football stadium representing the views of hundreds of thousands of people across Europe. Writing such behaviour off as "just as a few idiots" would provide acceptance and validation to a widescale problem that is clearly on the rise. Surely you can contemplate why that's an issue and how brushing off high profile cases of racism would set a dangerous precedent moving forward?

    This affects and influences so many more than the 15-20 yobs you're referring to and it's naive to suggest otherwise.
     
    #55 Tolly856, Oct 16, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  16. bantamlad92

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    What an outrageous assumption to make. What on earth have you based that statement on?

    By that logic, the collective racist incidents in English football lately is representative of millions of people in England?
     
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  17. bantamlad92

    bantamlad92 Squad Player
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    An opinion has more substance coming from somebody from an ethnic minority background who has been subjected to racial abuse/discrimination, than coming from a white bloke living in Britain.

    Take multiple figures who have said the same thing, Southgate said the other day "It's very easy for me to comment on racism as a white middle aged man". The guy on TalkSport echoed this view on Drive yesterday tea time, when he was with Darren Bent he said "I couldn't possibly know how it feels".
     
  18. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The Bulgarian PM is just being a typical politician, shift the blame onto someone else who has much less ability to start implementing changes to improve the situation than he does so the world's focus doesn't fall on him.

    And the thing with educating people and normalising seeing minorities is its not a quick thing to do. There is a point where we almost get locked into our views for life and as parents play a big part in shaping their kid's opinion this gets passed on (You see this in political views, ask a 15-year-old in a labour family their opinion on Margaret Thatcher and it will likely be massively negative, despite the fact that they weren't alive when she was PM and their parent's at best having been too young when she left to have formed their own informed opinion so the kids opinions are actually their grandparents opinion). It's not about totally changing opinions as that isn't generally going to happen, it's about chipping away at the opinion in each generation so each generation is a little bit better. If racism is to be totally removed its going to take like another 10 generations, not 10 years.

    Certainly you aren't going to change these countries that were behind the iron curtain overnight and not by punishing everyone including the more moderate citizens and removing opportunities for them to see black people and see them doing something aspiring and that shows them in a good light and not just a race of violent gang members and criminals that they are portrayed as in many of the places they might see black people
     
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  19. WilsdenBantam

    WilsdenBantam Squad Player
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    Well I’ve been abused in the past also, so does my opinion count more than others on here?

    I couldn’t care what Southgate thinks, it is his opinion not fact as it is my opinion that anyone can discuss or be offended by racism.
     
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  20. SimonW

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    Not always true though. You can be too close to an issue that it skews your view point. Just look at the US when a cop shoots a black person and the way the black community can get blinkered in their blame of police that they ignore things that person might have done to result in the shooting happening or for example the environmental factors stemming from their community which increases the risk. You will generally be able to draw a much better conclusion to an issue listening to a wide variety of people across all social, racial, cultural, religious, gender etc lines than you will if you only listen to one set of people
     
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