Quantcast
  1. Welcome to Bantam Talk

    Why not register for an account?

    Not only can you then get fully involved in the community but you also get fewer ads

  2. Premium Membership now Available


    Please see this thread for more details

    Dismiss Notice

Plans and Vision

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Kevin1954, Apr 1, 2024.

  1. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    17,257
    Likes Received:
    14,753
    On another note Mansfield game called off…waterlogged! Who needs the green stuff?

    No groundsman sackings, no
    If they recruited to a plan and a vision, why recruit him in the first place ?
     
    Bronco likes this.
  2. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    14,652
    Likes Received:
    24,677
    Does it matter?

    They made an error and corrected it and are now sat in 4th.
     
  3. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    17,173
    Likes Received:
    40,763
    The trick is spotting your mistakes quickly. And to be fair they did. Because we have no strategy we just go from one manager to another without any real idea of how we want them to fit a system. The summer was a perfect time to carry on the work Hughes did, but alarm bells should have been ringing for Sparks when Hughes wanted to change everything he'd got right.
     
  4. vin weasel

    vin weasel Squad Player
    P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Messages:
    2,478
    Likes Received:
    3,331
    Exactly!!!
    And he should have gone then.
     
    Leeds Bantam likes this.
  5. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    14,652
    Likes Received:
    24,677
    Exactly.

    We wouldn't know if we'd made the right appointment or not. We aren't judging them by anything.
     
    Inspector, WilsdenBantam and Onside like this.
  6. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    17,257
    Likes Received:
    14,753
    Im not talking about the error, nor current league position , I’m talking about their “plan and vision” they allegedly recruited to .

    Since this vision and plan was invented they have been on a downward spiral and coughed up £200m ! (Edit Since corrected .)

    We need to stop pretending clubs have a vision and stop pretending they have a plan. They don’t

    They got rid because he didn’t produce the results , sod all to do with any plan , nor vision.

    PS, So should we, along with every single player out of contract except Gilly and 70% of those with a contract.
     
    #6 Kevin1954, Apr 2, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2024
    Bronco and 1975citygent like this.
  7. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    17,257
    Likes Received:
    14,753
    Absolutely right, but zero to do with a plan nor strategy. Produce the results and he stays . Winkleman has a bottomless pit of money from the shopping centre so he can afford to toss managers by the wayside. Sadly our owner has to use his own money or in our case, not.

    MKD = 21 managers of various iterations since 2004.

    BCAFC 20 managers of various iterations since 2004


    They have a plan and recruit with a vision, yet we don’t .

    See the problem RT?
     
    bantamdave41 likes this.
  8. bantamdave41

    bantamdave41 Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Euro 2020

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    7,096
    Likes Received:
    10,294
    In truth, I couldn't care a less about MK but Bradford City. Plan or no plan, I'm so fed up with the regression and little light at the end of the tunnel, all us supporters are enduring here at Valley Parade
     
    Onside, WilsdenBantam and Kevin1954 like this.
  9. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
    Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,982
    Likes Received:
    15,005
    Just to clarify something, MKD have never had losses of or 'coughed up' £200m or anything close to that. You misread the article. The £200m quoted as losses in the article was for the entirety of the Championship teams at the time, not just a single club. The true numbers from the last time MKD published their accounts in 2023 is they have accumulated losses over several years of £12.5m, largely financed by loans of £12.8m from other profitable companies in the MKD group, far from the £200m you keep referring to.
     
  10. Petrov

    Petrov Squad Player

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    7,580
    Likes Received:
    15,732
    Perhaps Kev should take his own advice and 'do his homework' before posting ;)
     
  11. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    17,173
    Likes Received:
    40,763
    Every club has or should have plan including short and long term. We do actually have a plan from our owner, that was to be self sufficient above everything else. Which has proved to be detrimental to any progress we could have made. See why Carlisle came back down, because they had no plan other than to see what would happen from season to season. You might get lucky but you will find your rightful place on the ladder.
    Now our owner has admitted it the club would go nowhere with that plan, hence his statement of intent the other day. As @Faithful Bantam@Faithful Bantam rightly pointed out , clubs or businesses that plan to stay still usually go backwards.
    I hope Rupp is true to his word, that his lack of plan and leadership over the last six years has.put this club back years. And that he now acts on this.
     
  12. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    17,257
    Likes Received:
    14,753
    A five year old could write Rupps vision …”.Keep yer hands in yer pocket and let mummy buy the sweeties”
     
    JonButterfield likes this.
  13. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    17,257
    Likes Received:
    14,753
    Thanks my mistake and thanks for clarifying ..my bad. More than happy to accept it was wrongly read.


    Back to this “plan and vision” they have, and just for a minute ignore the smaller debt pile generated by football loss making activities they support by “ loans” from other Winkleman businesses.

    In a nutshell he’s ploughing money into the football side using his other businesses as the bank manager that never needs to be repaid. Is that how the EFL see it?
     
  14. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    17,257
    Likes Received:
    14,753
    Me too Dave , I was responding to the b/s that they specifically recruit to a “plan and a vision” when in fact they have a bigger turnover of managers than we do. It’s all b/s . They react to on field success just like we do. Sack the manager if the results go the wrong way. Simple , and that’s what we should do along with 75% if the squad and our recruitment guru.
     
    bantamdave41 likes this.
  15. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    17,257
    Likes Received:
    14,753
    I misread it and acknowledged the fact. It’s a shame others on here don’t do the same, instead of disappearing from a thread. ;) Where did you point it out I’d misread it, sorry I missed it:cool:
     
  16. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    11,187
    Likes Received:
    28,830
    To my mind, there are 3 fundamental themes to what our strategy should hinge around:

    1. The Ground. The current model of leasing at £500K, is simply not sustainable. And given Rupp's personal wealth, there's zero excuse (other than disinterest) for not resolving it. Either by agreeing a buy-back at a reasonable price, or by investing in a new stadium - which I appreciate isn't cheap. Buy back option, lets assume the purchase price is somewhere in the region of £7m. That seems to be roughly the going rate from what can see - well, that value is immediately back on the balance sheet of the club, and is added to the asking price of the club for any sale. Rupp wouldn't be out of pocket as such. Depending on the level of benevolence (or rather, ambition) Rupp wants to show, he could choose to charge the club zero 'rent' by way of reclaiming his purchase cost. But even if he charged half of what we currently pay, you put the other £250K into hiring a quality DoF, and paying for a high quality data analytics service to properly support effective recruitment (not a kid with an iPad and the gaffers little black book, like we currently do). A new build would likely be in the region of £30m. A lot of money, but could be financed through a combination of Rupp's personal wealth, or leveraged debt against either the club or his business portfolio. Even if the council and Bulls didn't want to do something as a shared venture, take the plunge and build a new, modern stadium that incorporates leisure facilities and creates a much better experience for all supporters, makes game day more of a family day out, and seriously expands the revenue streams coming into the club. Various other clubs have proven what a regenerative effect it has. The only blockers are a lack of genuine ambition - the funding challenges can be overcome. In any event, the fact that we're currently paying 500K per year rent, make a solid business case for either option.

    2. Invest in a performance culture. Beyond the DoF, what other roles are required across the wider club? How are we approaching travel, accommodation for away games, nutrition, sports science etc. The fact we train at a school isn't an issue - the training pitches are fine, we have a pool, a gym. Its the marginal things that need sorting - and of course, the pitch at VP. Get it sorted, properly.

    3. The football and recruitment philosophy. Establish a style of playing that's embedded in every aspect of the club. First Team, Women's Team, reserve and academy teams etc. Build every aspect of our approach to hiring managers, coaches and players based on that style. Focus on quality over quantity with the squad, the bulk of which should be under 26. And where Rupp could really pony up, is by shifting our recruitment away from out of contract lower league and older players, to funding a succession of transfer fees so we can target quality players who aren't tossed away by their clubs. Back yourself, led by the DoF and higher quality data analytics capability to target the best players in League 2 and the NL, Scandinavian and northern European lower leagues. Build relationships with the norther powerhouse clubs so we're at the front of the queue for their released players or higher quality loan prospects. Establish a pathway for these players to get big moves. Yes it costs, but invest in it properly and create a virtuous cycle of buying and selling well. Do it properly and over time, Rupp would likely get much of his investment back, and may even profit. And do it properly, and I guarantee the fans would back the players - even young players who might look raw. We need a credible plan and believable trajectory to get behind.

    We're talking a level of investment into the millions, probably with a combination of personal funding from Rupp and properly structured debt.

    This is what it will take to get us properly back as a football club that could get to, and survive in the Championship. And its the only way, in my opinion, that Rupp can redeem himself.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
    P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    9,224
    Likes Received:
    15,558
    Rupp could do that from all his other businesses!
     
    Dennis likes this.
  18. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
    P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    9,224
    Likes Received:
    15,558

    Just read this after replying to @Dennis@Dennis. Ok you have got the job, submit this to Rupp.
     
  19. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
    Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    5,982
    Likes Received:
    15,005
    Indeed. He has a number of other 'investment companies' and I'd be gobsmacked if he wasn't making money from most of them. But there is an enormous difference between Rupp and Winkelman. One is a football fan, is genuinely interested in his club and is willing to put money into it to develop with a vision to establish the club higher up the pyramid. Good on him. But I doubt Rupp even thinks like that which is his prerogative.

    Even if Rupp is true to his word and helps the club get promoted to Div 1, I don't see him doing what many club owners have to do in the Championship. To remain an established Championshp club, many owners continue to pump £10m or even £20m into the club each year in the hope of getting to the land of milk and honey. Those that don't do that soon see their club on the way back to the lower leagues. I really can't imagine Rupp buying into that concept irrespective of how well his other companies are doing..
     
  20. Onside

    Onside Squad Player
    P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2018
    Messages:
    9,224
    Likes Received:
    15,558
    I did say could;)
     
    Dennis likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice