George Floyd copper

The media have got exactly what they wanted, pump up the hysteria to crazy levels and watch the fish jump into the net. Fascinating viewing though from a neutral point of view.

 

Completely agree! Like having a free sub to Sky Sports Rioting this week.

 

I'm watching it now, its like a well played out script. The pantomime villain Paul Golding now being shown in all his glory, giving his Winston Churchill V sign a very good airing. The fact these feckwits choose to cite heroes who stood up to oppression in World War 2 as a reason to spout their vile shite makes me feel sick. Its like being back in the 70s.

 

INGERLUND, INGERLUND, INGERLUND!

The human race really is f*cked.

 

Watched a lot of this guy on TV and he is bang on the money. Most common sense view i've heard on his whole debate.

 

Its a shame because I think this is an opportunity where we can have a constructive and actually quite interesting debate on our history, but I suppose that doesn't sell many papers

 

And that's to our credit as a society that that is possible. The point I was making is that the white kid in Offy's picture that he put up is of a child that still had some privilege over his BAME peers simply due to his heritage even though they all grew up in similar conditions.

Yes, Tony mentioned he HOPES it kicks off. He can sit, watch, tut, post on here about how awful they all then.

 

What usually happens is the intelligent people start the debate with a hope that some positive action can be achieved through people working togther. In reality what happens is the debate gets hijacked by people from all sides with ulterior motives, usually wealth based, that sees the ones at the bottom of the ladder fighting against each other while forgetting what they were supposed to be fighting for in the first place. As you say a real shame.

 

Your first sentence falls in to the trap of dividing people though. People at the bottom rung of the ladder with similar circumstances care not one bit for black lives matter, their supposed white privilege offering them no hope whatsoever. People have more power together rather than as afflicted individual groups.

 

Unfortunately we will never get to that stage, wealth will always be the biggest divider in society but not all from both sides can see it.

 

its a missed opportunity in several ways, as I'm sure once the issues on race inequality were debated and dealt with, that seems a perfect jumping off point to tackle class issues and wealth inequality as many of the issues overlap with race imo. Its been a bit upsetting because ive seen a lot of working class people balk at the blm movement even prior to the monument shenanigans, when it's a movement that can quite easily grow to accommodate other issues and become a wider protest against inequality under the right circumstances.

 

People were divided, that's my point. There wasn't an equal chance despite similar backgrounds. We now have anonymous job applications to take out prejudice against race, sex, age etc but it's taken a long time to get here and not everywhere does that.

 

The facts defeat your arguments @Hoochy-Min , if you look at the large social housing estates in and around Bradford they're 90% white occupied , which tends to suggest white people have less chance of joining the housing ladder .

 

Where does it say that?

 

My Brother works at the town hall , the figures are available upon request . I agree with your points that everybody should have the same chances in life , the same educational chances etc etc but in my experiences of going to School in the 60s and 70s everyone did have the chance to improve . When i attented Bradford technical collage it was a 50/50 split between the communities . Everybody in my year went on to become Engineers in there chosen fields .

 

A number of the e fascist thugs surrounding the cenotaph in Manchester were giving Nazi salutes when I walked past earlier. Madness.

 

I think you've missed my point entirely.

 

Thats very Ironic considering who churchill fought against in WW11 . The ignorance on both sides is quite astounding . The Race relations in this country have been knocked back 20 years by whats happening on the streets of the UK . What really annoys me is the MSM in the background who seem to revel in the stories developing , the MSM is supplying the oxygen to fan the flames of division . I really fear for this countrys future .

 

I didn't , it's my reflection of growing up in Bradford in the 60s and 70s , if you look at the demographics of the Protestors they are mainly people born in the 2000 , they have absolutley no idea of how things in this country was only 50 years ago . Since then the lives of all the communities have improved a 1000 fold .

 

what heritage is that that you want to preserve? and by wanting to preserve something, by definition you must feel something is under threat. what and by who?

Britain is and forever will be a 'mongrel' nation, and by that i mean a multicultural society built on a history of the mass migration of Romans, Saxons, Goths, Danes, Normans and so on who brought aspects of their culture with them which became engrained in the culture and landscape of the country Britain. look at city plans, road plans, castle locations, language, food, art; none of these are solely 'British' and Britain as a land could never survive without the influx and help it has had from overseas. research has shown the first modern Britons had dark to black skin.

as far as I'm aware, a statue never taught anyone anything. that happens in schools and through books, learning etc. people are not trying to eradicate anything but to broaden the discussion to include the bad parts of British history too and of people.

nobody has a problem discussing what Britain has done for the benefit of people but there is rarely anyone who wants to discuss the awful atrocities that it has commit throughout it's history and recent history too - by that I mean within the last 100 years too. people and nations can do both good and bad things but it and it's people need to acknowledge both aspects of their history. to gloss over any discomforting parts is to do a disservice to the whole population and wider. you learn more through your failures than successes.

this isn't the first time the Churchill statue or others (statues of Mandela and Ghandi are also under protection today due to the risk of vandalism, but i'm guessing you knew that?) and it won't be the last. it happened regularly when Boris Johnson was mayor of London and involved in cabinet, so i'm unsure why he is surprised that it is happening again today.

the good folk are quite right to praise Churchill for his role in WW2 but you'd think he did it alone.. pick up any history book and it's clear that he didn't. he was and still is a controversial individual if you delve into his history as a whole person, not just those 6 years between 1939-1945. what are your thoughts on his role in India, Africa and Ireland? his views on the treatment of the indigenous people of Australia and America?

be interested to hear your thoughts on the 'football lads' in London today too and their treatment of the police?