George Floyd copper

I haven’t read the report, I’ll be honest. I’m aware that the lead of the inquiry used that term in the report, but i don’t believe its been evidenced objectively. I think its the subjective view of the enquiry. They may be correct, they may not be. For me, to believe the idea of institutional racism in the police then i’d have to see some form of data driven evidence, scrutinised in context, across a reasonable sample size. If we’re talking specifically about institutional racism in the police, I think there are data points to challenge the idea.

From the ministry of justice and the office of national statistics:

As a proportion of the population, the % of stop and searches across white and black ‘suspects’ in very much aligned to the rate of convicted crime in the same communities. The % in London is very different, but is still in line with the spread of population and rate of crime.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/849201/race-cjs-2018-infographic.pdf

Conviction rates are higher for the white population than the black population. Statistically, over the last 10 years you’re 25% more likely to die in police custody/during arrest if you’re white than black. In this country.

Stop and Search is murky area. Adjusted for population breakdown and rate of proven crime by race, the stats don’t make it look massively disproportionate. I’ve no doubt that if you’re innocent and you’re stopped by police, and you’re a BAME person, it likely feels like a degrading and targeted experience. But that doesn’t necessarily make it a racially prejudiced event. There’ll be incidents of that, because there’ll be racist police officers. But i don’t see the institutional aspect, I really don’t. And there IS a conversation about the significant over-representation of crime in the black community and the part that it plays in things like stop and search, that’s very much needed. No one seems to want to have it openly, without resorting to identity labels and lazy accusations. I’ll accept there may be racially driven factors, but there are cultural, economic and social factors too, that aren’t anything to do with racial oppression or white ‘privilege’.

 

To be honest if her parents weren’t a couple of Drs I don’t think it would have had as much coverage. If it had been a family from Ravenscliffe the press would have slaughtered them at the time and not brought it back up again.

 

Morgan is a total arselicker - as his constant referencing of celebs as his "friends" proves. He was laughing at people being woke last year, but now has totally jumped on the bandwagon and is as woke as anyone. He's just using this incident to get some black "friends" and feel better about himself.

 

Regarding your first paragraph, I'd reply that football fans are too mixed a group to make such an argument worthwhile. Both fans and the hooligan element cross so many boundaries -- race, nationality, ethnicity, or whatever other limits you'd wish to impose -- that they are not an identifiable, discrete, element. Granted, there are differing "tribes" and "nations" within the overall category of "Native North American."

On a lighter note, it has not been unknown for opera-goers to get rather rowdy...

As for your second paragraph, this is not all that different from my point. Various studies have been done in this field, though conclusions vary dramatically, from yes, there is a genetic component, to no, there isn't! This is nowhere near my specialty in the Arts so I'm as dependent on web searches and following up references as anyone else. I did find the Wikipedia (yes, I know that's not a scholarly source!) article titled "Alcohol and Native Americans" useful as an overview and as a source of references, one of which is the following:

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.2012.12010113

which intends to, and succeeds in giving, I think, a good overview of the state of play as of 2013. One can glean from that article that yes, it is possible that genetics does play a role, though how big a role is as yet undetermined. The Wiki article shows very well that all sorts of other factors come into play, which you have alluded to (societal, environmental, historical etc.).

RCB

 

Thanks for sharing that study, a very interesting meta-analysis. For me, the author's observation that

"Taken together, the results of genetics studies conducted to date suggest that the genetic influences contributing to substance use, abuse, and dependence in Native American populations are likely similar in kind and in magnitude to the genetic influences contributing to the liability for these phenotypes in other ethnic groups."

Is key. We are going down a bit of a rabbit hole here discussing native American alcohol consumption, which is straying a bit from my initial challenge around ascribing a genetic difference explaining observed behaviour. My sense from this article is that it is way too early to be doing this and the authors in this analysis highlight conflicts between research, as well as agreement.

It is a fascinating debate. Like you, I’m not a scientist, but I do have an interest in this area.

 

The amount of people protesting in the US reminds me back to the last years of the Vietnam war. There is definitely a momentum behind the movement although what they actually want to achieve remains a subject open to debate. We as a society (well, the intelligent part of it) want to see a free, fair and just society where people are treat as equal. In truth i think what you are seeing now isn't a watershed moment as some are making out. You will see this very same scenario played out 15 years from now, 25 years from now etc. The world as we see it may change but the underlying differences between races and religions will not. The world is not meant to be for equals.

 

Here's another piece of virute signalling to chew on while having your breakfast.



Not a dicky bird out of him until this Goerge Floyd business kicked off, now he's full of remorse. The problem seems to stem from his take on black celebrities on his sketch show Bo Selecta. One TV host Trisha Goddard seems upset judging by her comments. Should she be offended and at what? Being 'mocked' as a TV personality or because a white man has decided to characterise a black woman? Would she have been offended if a black man had done the same thing? Or is society right to lambast Keith Lemon/Leigh Francis for effectively doing what Jim Davidson had been doing in his stand up for years?

 

I'd like to apologise for all those black jacks that I bought on my way to school and I do miss those black&white mints too.......

 

Presumably he's that regretful he'll be donating the entire salary he received to support black causes.

Or maybe not.

 

The whole identity politics, left wing movement will make things worse. The only thing that we'll see is more division and violence.

I dont understand what the protests are trying to achieve or why they've been started, outside of the USA.

 

For likes and retweets m8.

 

It's called lockdown bandwagon they see others in groups congregating in America so they think that's something we should be doing.

 

I don't even think its that. I think there are a lot of angry and agitated people out there, most whom either don't understand what they're angry about, who they're angry with or their anger is at least partly misplaced.

 

I can't stand this whole retrospective racism thing. Times were different, and surely it shows progression that it's been recognised as racist and isn't done anymore? Nothing is ever going to change if people keeping referencing things from the past. Perhaps people should start digging up Dr Dre and NWA albums and calling them out for wanting to kill the police with their AK47's? Perhaps the black community should stop calling each other niggah as it gives mixed messages? Can we get Snipes to apologise for "white men can't jump"?
I watched with the Mrs (she forced me honest) some Nefflix dating show "love is blind". When one of the girls who was black, finally met the guy she'd been chatting to (the format of the show was that it was a blind date for x amount of weeks until the point they decide to get married. Yes. Seriously), she was extremely worried because she'd never dated a white guy before due to her dad "not liking white folks" and "her friends will make fun of her". Her friends indeed did laugh, and did ask how she'd cope with bad sex (racial stereotyping), and her dad indeed get mad and wasn't even sure if he'd come to the wedding such was his dislike of the white guy. Anyway - what did the newspapers and internet all pick up on? Was it this? No....it was the white woman who got drunk on each of her dates to the point of passing out. If it was the the other way round, then it would have been all over the papers.
And talking of entitlement and milking the situation - English black footballers and English black Star Wars film stars all talking about fighting repression and attacking the privileged white mentality. The guy is in a Star Wars film - something every kid dreams of doing. Look at our England team. Half the team are black. Our best players are black. How can they be attacking white privilege?
And while we're at it! The Jews! I don't hear them moaning and protesting. They've had it bad for thousands of years. Most recently eighty years ago. Probably still very opressed now. Is Borat going to come out and apologise for the way he spoke about them in his movie?

Sorry for the rant. I'm not racist at all. I am all for equality. It wasn't me that enslaved black African Americans, so don't hate me. What that policeman did was completely out of order, and I hope he's made an example of. I hope it shows those who are racist, or even have their own doubts, what goes on in the world (not just America), but more important than feeling remorse about shit that has gone on, is wanting to make change for the future.

 

You make some great points. Take slavery in the US for example. Often used to demonstrate the deep seated racism that exists in that country. And I'm not saying that there isn't any truth to that discussion. But if people are going to use it as an example of systemic white oppression of black people, you need to include in the debate that the majority of abolitionists were white, the abolition of slavery was driven and endorsed by an almost exclusively white American congress, and so deep was the belief that Slavery was wrong and immoral that their president at the time was prepared to allow an enduring civil war that took hundreds of thousands of lives. A president generally regarded to be the most popular in American history.

 

Why are we digging up 15-20 year old shows to have a go at? It’s all about moving forward isn’t it? And educating? Eventually there will be nothing left on the tv as everything offends someone. Be it sexism racism homophobia. Comedies and jokes are just that. Why do we need to cleanse everything? Even these kids doing the kneel on their mates neck. A very ill informed joke but who didn’t mess about like that as a kid? There was just no camera around.
Talk of them losing college places etc. Pathetic

 

The death of Floyd is a tragedy and should not have happened, However it has to be asked whether the perpetrator had been white would the officer who was a nasty piece of work anyway done the same thing to him and if so would there have been protests round the world.