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Exam results

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Aaron Baker, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    20 years ago. Some of your cohort will have kids due to be sitting these exams. Several education secretaries, several governments ago. The National Curriculum was only 12 years old when you did your A levels. It's completely different now.
     
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  2. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    So you are trying to tell me that 20 years later where results are even more important to schools than ever that they now leave Exam prep to a week before study leave? You aren't after all leaving something important to a semester that you lose half of it for exams and study leave and if its not important they aren't leaving useful months of prep and refeshing knowledge

    There just is absolutely no way they hadn't already started exam prep. Infact I know for a fact they had because there have kids TV today bitching about how hard they had been working on exam prep when the exams were cancelled and how they feel like they are going to get screwed over by predicted grades being used
     
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  3. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    But surely that's because you can't really standardise across schools when the 'grading' isn't consistent. When you have an exam that everyone (well everyone on the same exam board) sat the same one so its all marked at a consistent level its fine but when every school (and even every teacher in the school) is predicting differently because its opinion not fact and each teacher has a different motivation how can you standardise? Lets say the 16% correct predictions all come from the same school because they made an effort predict realistically, if you now 'standardise' nationally you are putting these 16% at a massive disadvantage. You have little choice but to standarise on a school by school basis bring predicted grades inline with the results that the past 5 years suggest the school would achieve
     
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  4. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    The thing is though as I said previously yes over time the impact won't be a problem as other grades and experience will override it but there is a certain section of people over the next few years it will impact. When I left Uni it was at a point the IT job market had collapsed (we had just had the first internet bubble burst) and the Uni realised this and got a recruitment expert in to come and give a talk. One of the things he said was that every entry level job we go for they company will get 100+ more CV's, way more than they can interview so they will be looking for the smallest thing as a reason to dump your CV in the bin and things like grades are an easy thing to use to discard one. He advised that we list our qualifications but leave grades off so as not to give them an easy way to dismiss us (although he also said some may just dismiss it for not having grades)

    You now potentially have people applying for jobs who only have these qualifications to be judged on at the CV stage who now have grades that make their CV stand out more. So I'm not sure saying its not an issue is correct, its not an issue for those who goto uni and it may not be an issue for everyone else a few years down the line but right now it is a problem for a certain group of people (Especially with COVID making competition for jobs greater. I saw a news report about a pub that advertised for a new member of bar staff and would usually get 30 applicants but got over 200)
     
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  5. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    No, I'm saying that it's different now to 20 years ago. I did my exams around the same time as you, just a year or 2 earlier. I don't remember being taught specifically how to pass exam questions, we were taught the content. Now it's more refined and they coach children how to answer questions to gain maximum marks. It's not a perfect system but when you have an overall exam giving the major bias toward the overall mark it's no wonder that teachers will teach children how to best answer questions. These teachers have another 20 years worth of experience of what the exam board are looking for to maximise marks.
     
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  6. WilsdenBantam

    WilsdenBantam Squad Player
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    I left school during the financial crash, made it difficult to get a job, near impossible. People leave schools when we have recessions, people leave when we have financial peaks. It’s just one of those things, kids have it very difficult at the moment they shouldn’t be punished for not being able to take the exams. Give them the predicted grades and move on, if anyone is to blame it’s the teachers for the grades they give, but no chance should any kid suffer because of it. It’s not a level playing field, I got worse results than my predicted grades as I was poor under exam conditions, I’d have done far better now but tbh I couldn’t care less and best of luck to them all because life’s going to be tough for a while they deserve a bit of it.
     
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  7. YungNath

    YungNath Impact Sub

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    if they want their grades to stand they are forced to retake them. if they want to go straight into work they will have to take them otherwise at that stage of their lives employers will be asking why they didnt if why they dont have a levels. puts the onus on the student which isnt fair.m these kids are gonna be graduating into the worst jobs market since the 80s and worse than 2008 even imo, cut them a break

    Preparation time for the most difficult exam you can do before university isn't walking them through the exam its giving them a fair chance to succeed. why do you think they get study leave in the first place, its not because the exams themselves are so easy they don't need to be at school. i think you're understating what a tough examination a levels actually are. Just expecting people to go in blind with no prep time after adjusting to a new set of life circumstances where whatever you did at a level is no longer the focus doesnt do anyone any good and just creates more needless work and stress for both the students and the education sector.
     
  8. ConnecticutBantam

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    So you're saying a company using a scanning algorithm to read CV's should mean that we don't give kids a break... Any decent company worth their salt will factor this in when they're looking at candidates. It's not that difficult to run different queries.
     
  9. Botswana Bantam

    Botswana Bantam Regular Starter
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    No, you dont have "little choice" or have to standardise in that way, indeed the outcomes being played out all over the media is because of how they have gone about standardising it and that is the problem. There are at least two other ways they could have done it by using predicted grades. Don't forget predicted grades are there every year. That's nothing new. What is new is the absence of the exam this year and the qualifications authority has failed to develop an appropriate system to come to a generally accepted fair outcome despite knowing about there being no exams for months.

    Also, don't forget there are complaints every year and appeals every year (indeed at times I e been asked to re-mark an exam which has already been marked by an examiner and reviewed by a team leader!) but not to the same degree as this year.
     
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  10. Nottsy

    Nottsy Squad Player

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    Good luck to your lad today.
     
  11. Tolly856

    Tolly856 Squad Player

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    Taken from today’s Telegraph and Argus:

    And

     
  12. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    What are the other 2 ways using predicted grades do you reckon?

    It seems like they were trying to give grades that were "fair" to the individual students but also reflective of what's happens usually in each school and nationally. Every scenario I've seen put forward fails on one of those aspects.

    Given the 16% figure the reason for that seems to be that the base info - the predicted grades - are likely to be wrong so any extrapolation of that will be flawed from the beginning. I don't know how you get over that.
     
  13. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Same thing happening with the GCSEs today - over prediction and schools who have marked generously given and advantage over those that marked more realistically,

    Data shows 78.8% of papers were rated grade 4 or above. It was 69.9% in 2019
    Almost a quarter (23.5%) got a top grade 7 or higher (A or A* in old money) with 17.4% last year.

    But because it's teachers giving these obviously erroneous grades rather than the 'government' or an algorithm then nothing is said about these flaws.
     
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  14. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    Well just got my sons results and the government and school grades were almost identical. In some cases the government grade was higher.
     
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  15. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    That doesn't change my point though. It's being claimed that students haven't had the time to be prepped. My point was that even when I took them where we were near the start of them almost guiding us through the exams we started prep at the start of the semester before study leave. As you have just pointed out they are being guided even more now so are the teachers really now leaving it to like a week before they go on study leave? Seems unlikely, if anything you would think it would start even earlier as its become more and more important for schools to do well
     
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  16. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    Hope he is happy with them, Cannot help but think a lot of this has been whipped up by a media and political storm
     
  17. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    I'm not suggesting they should be punished though. Wanting them to get a fair grade that see's the overall results inline with what would have been expected isn't punishing them.

    And as it is with predicted grades they are punishing lots of people. Those who got qualifications prior to this year for example, kids that had teachers who were more realistic with the grades etc etc. We already see now the BTEC's which weren't impacted pulling their results so they can adjust them up so that these students don't get punished. We also see calls for next years exams to be made easier so that next year aren't punished, which then means its going to have to remain easier thus devaluing the qualifications from every year prior. Are they also going to have to dumb down degrees to account for the fact classes may be of 'lower quality' as no uni wants a massive drop out rate.

    Yes the algorithm has issues as it can't account for outliers so maybe someone who would have under nationally adjustment scrapped into an A when adjusted at the school level stay at a B but is that really any worse than giving everyone their predicted grade that is seeing the number of people getting A and above sky rocket making the actual A students achievements less and punishing the students I mentioned before?
     
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  18. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    Yeah he/we are absolutely delighted.
     
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  19. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    So which does he get?
     
  20. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    If its like A-Levels its whichever is highest
     
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