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Exam results

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Aaron Baker, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. Botswana Bantam

    Botswana Bantam Regular Starter
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    And you've just done exactly the same as you're claiming the other poster did. That isn't even close to what he said. Doing exam preparation (which is the wording used) so someone is familiar with the format and wording of questions and "walking someone through an exam" is not the same thing.
     
  2. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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  3. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    But they have already done that exam prep. Unless I'm mistaking what he is saying he is saying that because they might have to change the exam that now they need more classroom time. The exam being different doesn't change the prep they have already done. The question formats and structure will all be the same and having done mocks they have already all experiences that format and wording first hand
     
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  4. Botswana Bantam

    Botswana Bantam Regular Starter
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    Basically, the algorithm that was used was poorly constructed as it failed to take into account the individuality of the examination.

    What they tried to do was to do two steps in one - the grade and standardisation. What they needed to do was to separate those as they usually would have done so that the grades per student were calculated and then the standardisation process was done.

    I don't know why they made the algorithm the way they did but it was an error.
     
  5. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Seriously. Try a bit harder with your trolling please.

    Trying to imply I said something by quoting something saying the EXACT opposite and which was in reply to your post implying that effort = results when it comes to education is just piss poor
     
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  6. Botswana Bantam

    Botswana Bantam Regular Starter
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    I would disagree. Earlier on in the academic year the focus will be on content mastery rather than any examination for the same reason you made in an earlier post - its necessary to teach the child to master the subject not to pass the exam!

    If the focus is on how to pass the exam too early then they won't retain and be able to manipulate and repurpose the content.
     
  7. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    We aren't talking about back in September though. We are talking about a month before they were due to go on Study leave. I'm pretty sure that last semester before study leave we did very little new learning both at GCSE and A-Level, it was recapping on what was important to remember and exam prep.

    If this had all kicked off pre-christmas I would say you have a point but when they had 3 months post Christmas and only 1 month before study leave I just don't buy that they would be totally incapable of taking exams (Especially A-Level students who have gone through it at GCSE as well, it's not like you spend alot of exam prep time at uni after all, we had maybe 30mins going over how to do notes for a Semi-open book exam as its not something you ever experience at lower levels)
     
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  8. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    I'm interested by this.

    I kinda get that they standardise grades usually by setting the boundaries between grades at differing mark levels every year.

    I can't figure out how they could standardise any better than they did (teachers ranking students in order) but I think you're onto something though. It is probably the part they could have done better, just can't figure out how.
     
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  9. Botswana Bantam

    Botswana Bantam Regular Starter
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    Yer, not back in September but it was March when it was all getting a bit hairy scary.

    I've no idea how long ago you wrote your GCSEs/A levels but it was only 12 years ago that I was in charge of two subjects for a national examination body and things have changed a lot since then so your experience may not be completely comparable.
     
  10. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    So you are now splitting hairs to explain that trying hard is not the same as making an effort?
     
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  11. Botswana Bantam

    Botswana Bantam Regular Starter
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    From what I'm aware the algorithm proposed a students grade but then also standardised all the grades of all students in a certain subject.

    Ordinarily, the student would obtain a score which would be indicative of a grade and then there would be a process to work out the level of achievement for that particular year group and apply to to the set standard which might result in the grade boundaries moving up or down and therefore finalising the grade.

    The algorithm they used did both those steps and therefore disproportionately moved some students up and some down by an amount that was much greater than it should have done.

    Personally think it was a shame that they were offered help to try and improve it prior to being launched but the confidentiality agreement was far too over reaching for any organisation to want to sign it and agree to help.
     
  12. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    1998 for GCSE's, 2000 for A-Level. But I find it hard to believe they are spending less time preping for exams these days then they were back then. Schools were concerned about their 'league table' rankings back then but now where near as much as now.
     
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  13. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    Agree the NDA was so tight and constrictive that no academic organisation would have agreed to it. Makes you wonder why it was so restrictive.
     
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  14. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    I think theres a step missing in what you say but I generally agree.

    The teachers ranked the students best to worse I believe so not ALL the students were downgraded.

    My - probably simplistic - view of this is that if a school predicted 10 A* students in English usually but only usually achieved 5 then when they predicted the same 10 A* this year then the algorithm pushed the 5 weakest of those students down the order. Like I say that's probably simplistic.

    I do think this is the area that could have been improved on, or definitely have been explained better if this was the case.
     
  15. Botswana Bantam

    Botswana Bantam Regular Starter
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    A few people have said similar. Unfortunately I don't think there's anything to hide per sé it's just the nature of education and examinations bodies that are risk averse, bureaucratic and very skeptical of outsiders. They can't adjust/respond in an agile way as they're not setup in that way nor encouraged to behave like that. Most of the time that's a good thing but when something of the nature of a global pandemic pops up they can make themselves look a bit silly and out of touch.
     
  16. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    I really have no idea what you are trying to argue.

    Lets just follow the timeline

    You posted

    At no point did I say anything about effort. You were the one who brought up effort. My whole point was about the different ways that predicted grades are used to motivate pupils. At no point did I say anything about effort. Its you who brought up effort and keep trying to make out I said anything about effort.

    As I said in my reply effort has a fairly small impact on how you do in education. If you are borderline the amount of effort may be the difference but just because you put in more effort than someone else doesn't mean you out perform them. n
     
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  17. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    And now BTEC results have been pulled even though exams weren’t missed, but because all the other work has been marked against the usual A-Level/GCSE standards so therefore now have been marked too harshly compared to the A-Levels
     
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  18. Botswana Bantam

    Botswana Bantam Regular Starter
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    That's correct and is a fuller explanation of my first paragraph. The individual performance was overlooked because of a forced ranking but also because the ranking was on too micro a level it didn't allow for the usual wider aggregation of all the results which is where things tend to balance out because one school will perform better than usual one year and one will perform less well. Its that aggregation that was lost and is the bit that is taken into account in the second step of the process which some bodies call standardisation or 'grading'.
     
  19. Keefly Bantam

    Keefly Bantam Important Player
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    Here is what you said and I quote
    SimonW said:
    If you think your kid working hard has anything to do with how well they do in comparison to others then you are massively deluded. You can have the most dedicated kid in the world who spends 5 hours a night revising and doing independent study and they will still most likely be beaten by someone who doesn't try in class, would rather be down the park either playing football or drinking etc etc. Working hard might edge you over to the next grade but it absolutely does not guarantee you do better than those who try less hard.

    No mention of previous intellect there at all.
     
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  20. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    There is this little thing called implication. If I'm arguing that how hard someone works does not dictate how well they do compared to others that means there is another factor. I don't need to to specifically state that natural intelligence is the biggest factor rather than work rate for it to be clear that's what I'm saying
     
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