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Edin Rahic: It's Not Personal

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by JonButterfield, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Looking at the 2017 accounts the assets value actually increase from 2016

    4C8FB941-FBD8-4716-A470-3D661193A888.jpeg
     
    How likes this.
  2. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    If the wage budget has been reduced I'm not sure it’s for the reasons you think. City supposedly have the 7th highest salary spend in the league, it’s no where near Sunderland whose current wage bill apparently puts them at almost £10mill a year which is over double the next highest but it’s also not exactly chump change.

    I would imagine the biggest issue is FPP. You can spend 60% of your weekly turnover on wages excluding any home grown players under 21 who are exempt. Using the figures I’ve seen the players who count toward it account for about 55k a week. Based on past figures that have been mentioned by club officials your yearly turnover yoyo's between £4.5mill and £7mill. At the lowest figure that’s about £86.5k a week so 60% of that is a FPP cap of £51k. At the highest figure the FPP cap is £80k. If you take the middle of the two that gives a FP wage cap of £65k a week. So if they could guarentee a big sale or a cup run then there is loads in the FPP budget, if they don’t then the budget is fairy tight to a point where if they hit the low end revenue figure they already be paying too much. That’s the problem, even if Rupp is willing to put his hand in his pocket unless he pulled a Man City and doped their financials there may just not be the budget available at League One levels to build the team they would like.
     
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  3. JimmyBantam

    JimmyBantam Impact Sub
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    What assets do the club have that people can think of? The club doesn't own the stadium and it doesn't own the training ground. What players do we have that are genuine saleable assets?

    A tough one if you ask me!
     
  4. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    We have a massive squad, and we have shown a tendency to favour quantity over quality since the day R+R took over. I'm worried that, as you say, the Salary Cost Management Protocol is going to severely limit us in January. If that's the case, Rupp guaranteeing Hopkin money to spend is going to largely depend on shifting players on (and if that doesn't help, can only add to their poor standing among City fans). Transfer fees don't count in SCMP - but wages are everything - but what are we going to do, spend a lot on fees on just a few players, thus hoping to negate the wage issue?

    When you look at the size of our squad compared to teams like Scunthorpe, we have 16 more players registered as first teamers. Even Peterborough and Portsmouth have nothing like the same squad size we have.

    That leads me to wonder if we're being incredibly stupid as a club in that when we sign young players we can't hide them in the youth system, thus skirting around SCMP rules? Just a thought, and I really don't know.
     
  5. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    A lot of the 'extra' players are exempt. Riley, Miller, Lewis O'Brien, Robinson for example are decent earners who are exempt. Your squad looks bigger as you got rid of the u23's but then most who would play in the u23's are obviously exempt
     
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  6. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    Perhaps a similar mind set to people who buy 10 lottery tickets rather than one. They think that by having so many, their chance of getting a winner must increase.
    The Premiership teams have developed their take up of young players akin to fishermen. Gone are the days when you could do reasoanably well with a Yorkshire ‘Pebble’, think ‘Factory Ships’! The top clubs take youngsters from round the globe. The philosophy at City, seems to be do a secondary catch, i.e. the ‘throwbacks’ which the Premiership clubs feel do not warrant a place in their controlled volume of catch, and are deemed surplus, may become the next Jamie Vardy! Very wishful thinking.
     
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  7. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    If Rupp put his hand in his pocket and invested extra into share capital of the club it would be available to spend under the rules
     
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  8. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Are you sure as that wouldn’t be Turnover rather investment. The EFL rules are fully on ensuring that wage spending is in a safe percentage range of turnover to limit the chances of wage inflation causing clubs to go bust (unlike UEFA's rules which are profit based)
     
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  9. Bigrod

    Bigrod Captain
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    If you can spend 60% of your weekly turnover on wages, then in FFP terms where does that fit in with ‘parachute’ money such as Sunderland, and clubs which in simple terms appear to punch very high given disproportionately wealthy owners, such as Fleetwood and Scunthorpe?
     
  10. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Parachute payments are considered revenue so they are included. It's why Sunderland are able to get away with spending almost £10mill a year in wages (their attendances also obviously help too) while no-one else even breaks the £5mill mark.

    Sunderland are also helped by the fact that there is additional help for clubs relegated in that any player whose contracts were for 3 years or greater when relegated from the championship is exempt from the calculation just like u21 HG players
     
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    #50 SimonW, Nov 8, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  11. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    Are they?

    http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php

    Why would Riley be deducted?

    The loan players, clearly, but I may have missed something with Riley and Robinson since they weren't with the club's YDS system and are both over 20?
     
  12. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    Just looked it up and apparently Rupp can inject money and it is counted as turnover BUT only as a donation. When you consider every million donated only gets them £11k more wage budget which is two top League 1 players that's a pretty steep donation required
     
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  13. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    They don't have to come through the clubs own system to be exempt. They just need to meet the homegrown criteria. That page just seems to give the most common example of a player at this level these days who qualifies as most would have come through your own system as those higher up aren't generally releasing players pre-being 21 these days
     
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  14. BoingBoing

    BoingBoing Emergency Backup

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    I can’t answer for him (F-i-L), but I thought he was referring to the figures published at the end of June this year, compared to those figures you have shown above.

    As I said, I think that’s what he was referring to
     
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  15. HUDDERSSBANTAM

    HUDDERSSBANTAM Squad Player

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    It was Rahic's idea not to offer them new contracts, until the end of the season.

    He didn't want to 'upset the dressing room'.

    We let the contracts run out and those very good players got better offers........no sh1t Sherlock.
     
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  16. HUDDERSSBANTAM

    HUDDERSSBANTAM Squad Player

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    How do you know they are decent earners?
     
  17. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    There are plenty of resources out there where wages of players get mentioned. Obviously, they will never be 100% accurate but when multiple sources have them in a ballpark you can hazard a fair guess its around that.

    When push comes to shove as well if you want a quick way to get a basic idea of wages a club is paying loading up Football Manager with the default database is never a bad start. The researchers for each club have contacts in both the clubs and the media (and often the agents) so they have multiple well-informed sources that allow them to take a pretty decent stab at wages

    Everything seems to have Riley on the north of £2k a week. Miller is apparently on £1.5k a week at Boro and O'Brien is on about £1k at Huddersfield. Both of which you are contributing the full amount.
     
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  18. HUDDERSSBANTAM

    HUDDERSSBANTAM Squad Player

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    You think we're paying 100% of wages for O'Brien and Miller?

    Riley looks an absolute shocker on £2k a week. No wonder both Manager's have tried to give him game time.
     
  19. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    That is from the ones published in March 2018. It can take upto 12 months for companies accountants to sign off and lodge the accounts with Companines House.

    Maybe you could ask him next time you speak to him?
     
  20. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    If we are paying 100% then it would be a first. We didn’t keep Hiwula for that reason.
     

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