Brexit

Well never find out if that is correct or just another remainers opinion, as May never used it or threatend to use it, when Boris threatend to use it MPs would not allow him to use the only card he had left.
Maybe between now and 31st October he can go back to Brussels and renegotiate a better deal than May with his hands firmly tied behind his back.

 

We appear to have had it from 2 Labour MPs now that they will go to the EU to negotiate a deal and then will support a second referendum to back remaining in the EU.

Why don't they just be honest and say they will now back remain and put their cards on the table, submit the 1 line bill to force a general election before the EU summit and then the people can really decide once and for all.

If Labour win outright, or Labour and a pact with the Lib Dems and the SNP gain enough seats they can then cancel Brexit just as they want to do without saying it.

If the Tories win then they can pull us out of Europe.

At least a line in the sand would have been reached, drawing this out forever is doing nothing to help us anymore.

Coming out with the crap Emily Thornberry came out with last night about negotiating a deal to campaign against just shows you that the current lot are quite happy to keep their current jobs and kick Brexit forever into the long grass.

Many MP in leave seats will be worried and people like Chris Leslie and Anna Soubry will really be worried as they will no doubt risk losing a place on the gravy train as change UK crashes into the abyss.

 

She was under massive pressure from leave voters and many in her party to invoke Artical 50 asap, unfortunatly the previous incumbents had not planned for the great unwashed to dare vote leave.
So she basically notifide the EU we would be leaving with very little discussed or in place, its not good to have someone in charge who was always against leaving the EU.
Many go on about cross party involvenent/ discussions but Labour would never accept any sort of break away from the EU.
So as the party given the task of delivering Brexit it was never going to be easy, even more difficult now with no deal taken off the table.

 

That has always been what the politucal parties have done in my lifetime and I believe Im older than yourself, it still goes on to prove a point.
In fact during Sajid Javid's resent spendind statement :
During the statement, Javid was interrupted twice by the Speaker, John Bercow, and ordered to limit his speech to the spending review after the chancellor devoted the early parts of his appearance to attacking Labour’s policy on Brexit.
As I say nothing new.

 

Not all MPs are liars. And, in any event, there are degrees of liar. Johnson is a serial liar of many years standing, as well as being lazy and incompetent.

 

We hear a lot about the referendum’s result; nobody voted for no deal. It has become a mantra that works on the premise that if it is repeated often enough ppl will believe it, and if will become fact, however the fact is it is all opinion. Nevertheless the choice the nation did not vote for was to remain in the EU.

Why didn’t the ppl vote for Remain? They were in the drivers seat, our default position after all. Where were the politicians of all colours? Why were we not bombarded with all the goodies that the EU offers the ppl’s of this land? Were we given any indication from the EU they would be looking at reform to tweek the massive beaucratic army that constitutes the EU? Did they reach out to the ppl of Britain? Did they promise to look at the governance and closer democracy that everyone understands?

We hear volumes of how the Leave campaign just lied and this was why ppl voted leave. This doesn’t make sense but yet we hear it every day, yet another brain washing exercise to convince ppl they were massively mislead. My view is ppl were not convinced that the EU could meet the needs of the British ppl in its fat beaucratic form. The British psyche is not drawn to large government, or distant government, with very little or obvious accountability. It wasn’t all about money, it was and is today about how we are governed.

It appeared to me they were quite prepared for change, and would go with the disruption. What none of us could have foreseen is that the argument about how we all voted would be an ongoing sore that is picked at every single day. The ppl I have spoken to Remain/Leave are angry that we keep having the referendum rerun and the argument over and over again.

 

Well that takes the biscuit mate, a lie is a lie no matter who's found out telling ithe lie, do we category lies now his was worse than hers.

 

I know this is the narrative you like to tell yourself Dave, but it's not true.
If a sensible soft Brexit (of the type promised by Leave before the referendum) had been attempted then enough remainers on both sides of the house would have accepted it to get it through.
But the moment May went to the EU saying we want a deal, but our red lines are no free music movement, no single market and no customs union, she killed any prospect of a negotiated deal with the EU or a parliamentary consensus stone dead. Under those circumstances the EU had to introduce the backstop to protect itself if we failed to reach a negotiated deal and parliament would not vote for a leap in the dark 'agreement' that would likely have ended with a No Deal crash-out at the end of the two year transition period.

 

There are different forms of liars. There are those that say things knowing full well they are lying to gain some sort of advantage. There are those that deliberately withhold the truth, knowing full well the impact that would have on the audience.

Define: lazy
Define: incompetent

In the context of the subject we are discussing.

 

Hey, you've just described me there.........!!

 

Excellent comment Mrs O, If anybody didn't know what they were voting for then they should have stayed at home...

 

No one is saying that 'nobody voted for No Deal'. I'm sure that plenty of committed Brexit voters did vote for no deal. But they would not have been sufficient to win a majority for Leave in the referendum.
At the start of the campaign Remain was ahead. Victory was achieved by persuading the non-commited floating voters to vote Leave. Most of those people were persuaded that we could leave, control immigration but maintain free trade and seamless customs arrangements - ie a soft Brexit. Even now, when everyone is heartily sick of Brexit and wants it over with, only 70% of Leave voters support No Deal.
It's perfectly clear that if Leave had campaigned for a No Deal Brexit they would have lost. Claims that there is a public majority in favour of No Deal, or that the referendum gives a mandate for no deal are both wrong.

 

If the cap fits...

 

Everyone tells lies sometimes. Johnson is known, even in his own party, as a serial liar of many years standing.

 

Another very good post, my only problem with regards "no deal" is as the vote was to leave and the government can't get Parliament to pass the deal on offer we then find ourselves in the present situation.
If a general election is called which is now inevertable the remainers have basically got what they wanted, another go.
I would suggest the choices will be very plain to the electorate prior to the vote, Labour, Greens,Lib/Dems, uncle Tom Cobley and all will canvas to remain, the Tories may say we will negotiate a deal which they may because no deal will no longer be stopping them that will be the first thing they get rid of.
Leaving the only party who's main policy is to leave the EU being the Brexit party.

 

As is Corbyn, they are all as bad as each other and out to further their careers and not the country. It's a fact!

 

It would be my view that the majority wanted a deal. However the floating voters as you put were somehow persuaded to vote leave thinking it would be easy. Really? My question is this why did we have floating voters, why didn’t the Remain campaign target that group with all the goodies that the EU offer? I have campaigned on many occasions, and you find your floaters very quickly, and you concentrate your campaign in that direction. This clearly didn’t happen or if it did what the EU had to offer didn’t strike a cord. Now whether they believed that it was all going to be a rose garden exit or not the Remain campaign failed monumentally to convince ppl to vote for the status quo.

 

Exactly the sort of reply I would expect from a remainer, your naritive or you didn't know what you were voting for.
Will you accept Cameron, Osbourne and many more said at the time a vote for leave meant leaving the EU, single market and customs union they were quite vocal in what leave meant.
So why would leaving having accepted Camerons comnents be a hard brexit, it is the only way we could leave because staying in any of the above is NOT leaving the EU.