Brexit

I need to study this economics lark, all a bit over my head.

 

The Labour Party is split on the issue, as I'm sure you know.
The biggest post referendum problem was May invoking Article 50 before gaining a Parliamentary consensus about what type of Brexit we were aiming for.
Aside from a few nutters in the ERG almost nobody wanted No Deal. Corbyn is a Brexiteer at heart so a consensus was possible if May hadn't jumped the gun, invoked Article 50 and laid down a bunch of inflexible red lines that made meaningful negotiation with the EU impossible. Corbyn would have whipped Labour MPs to support a deal to Leave, but not the open ended leap in the dark that May was trying to foist on us
A renegotiated deal is possible. But not with May's red lines in place. All the while they are there the EU will insist on the backstop to protect its back door through Ireland.

I'm a confirmed Remainer but I could accept a compromise on a Norway+ or Canada + deal, if it gets us out of this terribly divisive mess were in. Most of my Remainer friends feel the same. What we can't accept is that the referendum result was a mandate for No Deal.

 

Andrew Neil has been ripping labour Mps apart lately and he's not even had to try. He's asking them simple questions that they can't and won't answer because they can't even decide what to do about brexit between themselves.

 

Give over, Corbyn is from the Scargill school of unreasonableness and my fear is if momentum decide to fool us and replace him they would only put forward someone of a similar ilk (plenty to choose from)...

 

Paranoia rules, OK.
Let's face it, anyone to the left of Ghengis Khan is a commie in your book.

 

You bet, these are serious times....but also easily predictable..

 

I'm no big fan of Corbyn. I agree with his economic plans (which are mainstream Keynesian stuff, of the type that the Tories under Harold Macmillan and Ted Heath used to practise). I also think he's a good campaigner.
But as a party leader/manager and a political tactician I think he's poor. However, I think John McDonnell is a very smart cookie indeed and would make an excellent Chancellor of the Exchequer.
But, to answer your question, I would like Labour to be better than they are, but anything is better than what we've got. Johnson is an embarrassing joke. He was incompetent as Foreign Secretary and he's proving even worse as PM. His performances in the past few days are clearly proving an embarrassment to his own party. He's a lying clown who only cares about himself. The Tories are becoming a far right sect. Throwing out loyal one nation Tories like Clark, Soames and Hammond is a stupid act of self harm which I expect to hurt him at the ballot box in some southern Tory constituencies.

 

Did Layla Moran persuade you to vote Lib/Dem her being a Democrate yet saying if the result was the same a leave vote she would not accept it just as her party leader had quoted.

 

Yes we know Corbyn was very much anti EU yet this is a guy leading the Labour party and the likes of Emily Thornberry comments Boris is a liar and can't be trusted.
Once again I agree the referendum paper had 2 choices remain or leave, yet most people who voted knew if there was no acceptable deal the defauit was no deal.
Thats why most people are saying the situation can't be solved with so many MPs looking after their own careers and pulling different ways, so once again No Deal becomes the default.
I posted the other day what would happen when the vote to take No Deal off the table became law and Boris was asked to go back to the EU and ask for another extension.
I don't know if I heard it on Question Time or in another interview that if Boris will not go back and ask for an extension as the UKs PM then come 31st October the default No Deal kicks in, I'm not sure if this is true, who knows, if that is the case Boris just might do it ?.

 

Apart from the immigration situation the main thing that annoyed many leave voters (yes most oldies) was that over their lifetime they have seen what was the Common Market has become.
We have had to put up with members of both parties letting what is now the European Union take more and more control over our Sovereign countries.
As this was the first and only (were told) chance to get out we voted in favour of leaving, of course its a different world out there, as has been said we're the 5th biggest economy in the world other countries will want to trade even a European Union that we have left, other countries sell cars, wine, cheese etc, we buy more things from the EU than we sell, that should have been a very large bargining tool during negotiations with the EU negotiators yet Junker says May never threatend them with no deal, we all know why, to try and passify both parts of her Tory party.

 

She said if another peoples vote took place and the result was the same she wouldnt and her party wouldn't acknowledge it and your happy to consider voting for a party that makes those sort of claims.
Any wonder more and more of the electorate are disillusioned with party politics

 

Only 70% of Leave voters support No Deal so those who would have backed Brexit under any terms, including No Deal, would not have been sufficient to win the referendum for Leave. They only won because they promised Have Cake and Eat It, dismissed no deal as Remainer scaremongering and thereby convinced the floating voters who don't support No Deal to vote Leave..

Boris is a liar and can't be trusted!!!
He's the most self-serving, duplicitous, lazy untrustworthy politician I've ever seen - and it's a low bar.
This is the man who drafted two articles for the Telegraph before the referendum campaign, one putting the case for Remain (which he had always previously supported) and one putting the case for Leave (which he'd previously criticised as economic madness). He then decided to publish the leave article and support the Leave campaign, which he thought would lose, because it would get him the support of the right wing Tories in his bid to become Tory leader/PM.
Johnson is only interested in one thing - himself. He has no scruples. He will do anything to gain/cling to power and is absolutely not to be trusted.
If the Act is passed and Johnson refuses to go to the EU and request an extension before Parliament is prorogued then there will be a full blown constitutional crisis. Many of his own party would turn againsr him if he refuses to obey the law. It would certainly end up in the High Court very quickly. In fact I suspect that plans for an emergency court application are already being made in case this were to happen.
I suspect that the opposition parties would go to the Queen, say the PM is refusing to implement the will of parliament, ask her to dismiss him and rescind the prorogation so that Parliament could keep sitting and someone else would request the extension from the EU. But I doubt he'd want to go that far and would either cave in and ask for the extension or resign.
One way or another, of the Act passes on Monday I'm sure that Parliament will find a way to stop Johnson crashing us out by default on 31st October. I'm pretty sure that we'll end up with a GE in November and the makeup of the new Parliament will determine which way we go from there.

 

We were never gonna be allowed to leave whether we wanted to or not were we?

 

1. Which bits of our sovereignty have they taken from us?
2. Yes, countries will still want to trade with us. But they will still have the rest of the EU to trade with, which is a much bigger market than us. So our need will be greater than theirs.
We will be stuck on temporary WTO rules, the tarriffs of which will damage our trade badly and cause many UK businesses to fold. We will be desperate for deals to get us off WTO rules and other countries will know that, so they will drive very hard bargains, which we'll be forced to accept or see our economy continue to go down the toilet.
3. It's a Brexiteer delusion to believe that threatening No Deal would have caused the EU to withdraw the backstop or give us preferential treatment over other non member states. The EU values protecting the integrity of its core values - free movement, single market, customs union - over all else. Anyone who thinks they'd have compromised those things by caving in to a No Deal threat from us is kidding themselves.

 

Yes. If May had not laid down her stupid immovable red lines and then invoked Article 50 before agreeing in Parliament what kind of Brexit we were aiming for then we probably would have left by now.
Many Remainer MPs would have accepted a deal if it had been clear what they were accepting and if it included some kind of free trade/customs alignment arrangements so that our economy wouldn't be damaged.
There would have been a majority in Parliament to do a leave deal. But not the leap in the dark that May wanted them to sign up to. May's incompetence is responsible for creating the conditions in which the current Parliament can not agree on anything.

 

No one said if would be easy but it would be our elected government who were doing the deals, not being told by the EU who and what we could do.
Neither you or I know if there are better deals out there and what countries might offer, because as a member of the EU we can't negotiate seperate deals outside the EU.
With regards Trump you're commet is wishful thinking on your behalf, many said the Americans would never elect Trump he's a lose cannon. yet the economy us booming, more Americans in jobs, the $ is strong.
He meet with the North Korean leader and having spoken with Kim Jong-un the potencial crisis between North & South Korea has reduced dramatically and the two countries are now talking I'd suggest that was a great peice of World leadership.
Now you answer mine, you say you'll not vote for the party you have supported most of your life, you could not vote Labour with Corbyn as leader, obviously youre not voting Brexit, not much choice left, looks like you'll be supporting a party that has Democrates in their parties name yet are far from Democrates, as they didnt aknowledge the referendum vote and will not recognise it if the vote goes the same way in any future vote, you couldnt make it up mate.

 

May deliberately did that, she had no intention of leaving. All this could have been avoided if remain campaigners had done their jobs, i agree with that in some ways Remain had the better hand with the better cards form the deck. See why i don’t trust politicians to do anything for us.

 

There's some irony in calling out Boris as a liar when you look at any of our elected MPs from any party.