Brexit

Of course I'm bitter. Not just about Brexit - having the most corrupt and incompetent government in living memory doesn't help either. And an opposition that should be crucifying them but can't get its act together.
I'm not 'fighting a battle that has been lost'. We've left the EU. I recognise that. Anyone who thinks that we're rejoining anytime soon, if ever, is living in Dreamland.
But I do firmly believe that Brexit is an economic disaster for Britain, that is going to get a lot worse, and any benefits will be marginal compared to the detriments. Stupid nonsense like the freedom to reintroduce imperial measures and crowns on beer glasses may float Farage and Rees-Mogg's boats but they aren't the Brexit benefits that people thought they were voting for.
People were lied to. They were told it would reduce red tape when it's massively increasing it. Doing deals with Australia and other faraway lands is never going to come near replacing the superb free trade arrangements we had with our nearest neighbours and by far our biggest trade partners. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in cloud cuckoo land. Getting rid of all the foreigners is causing massive problems in various industries. And as for these extra billions for the NHS...
Nothing that has happened since Brexit has altered my view that it's a disaster. I despise the fact that these petty bits of bullshit like blue passports, imperial measures etc are being trumpeted by the Sun, Mail and Express as great acts of freedom, while they sweep under the carpet the mounting evidence that Brexit is greatly damaging us. It's just a distraction. Apart from a tiny proportion of very old people, no one wants pounds and ounces or gives a shit about crowns on glasses or blue passports. It's just another load of smoke and mirrors to distract the gullible from what's really happening. The pandemic has obscured the Brexit deficits but that excuse won't last forever. People will eventually wake up and see the damage done but that will be shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted.
If I'm wrong, and it all turns out ticketty boo then the Brexiteers will waste no time in pointing it out. In the absence of that flying pig, I reserve my absolute right to say I told you so.

 

The what now?

 

If you're an HGV driver whose wages and conditions aren't now being held down by cheap foreign labour I bet you don't think its a waste of time. Maybe it will spread to other key worker industries? Who knows.

As for the red tape. You're majority right, we might be able to get rid of ridiculous rules and pointless beurocracy internally but that will be overshadowed by the increased beurocracy of dealing with the EU as a Third Country.

The thing is though that we'll probably never find out whether it is a success because everything will be viewed through the spectrum of what you believed in 2016. For the next decade every bad thing that happened will be "because of Brexit" in some eyes and everything positive will be viewed in the same way by others. In reality there is ups and downs for every country and its almost impossible to completely separate everything out in a truly honest way.

 

While i agree with some of your post I disagree with most of it while respecting your right to your views, I tend to agree with those that say the EU will implode at some stage, They now owe over 12 billion Euros and still borrowing to keep it going and fund poorer members who still disobey EU rules with impunity, Who will pay this massive debt as eventually the EU will be held to account, They dare not even do an audit due to corruption, Fortunately it will not be us although they will come cap in hand,

 

@Clity does https://bantamtalk.com/index.php?threads/brexit.460/page-190#post-551924 .

 

Talking about lying being one sided from the leave campaign.






https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58570505

 

First sentence says stop reading.

Who has said house prices have dropped, I tried explained the circumstances why they HAVENT. Clearly it’s a tad too much ?

Anyway think about plenty of petrol but not enough drivers to deliver
Plenty of non meat foodstuffs but no drivers to deliver
Plenty of chickens but no staff to process 3.5 million we consume a WEEK.
My area is full of live pigs but they can’t sent them for slaughter because there is insufficient CO2 and if they do get to the abattoir they have insufficient staff to butcher them.
Exports to EU DOWN 41% imports down 21% ( Sinking in yet?) . They are therefore net gaining by TWENTY %

The list is endless and yet it was a spiffing idea for the extremely hard of thinking.

Ah but it’s Covid fault…

 

But the discussion isn't about why they haven't happened. You said that everything that had been claimed HAS happened.....

.....so clearly why they haven't is moot. Why is that not perfectly understandable? If we're talking about why it hasn't happened then your original statement it plainly wrong.

As for the rest of it. Completely agree it is either caused by or made worse by Brexit.

The issue though is that SOME people voted for Brexit purely because of this reason. Their industries had been pushed down in pay and standards because of what they saw as the cheap import of labour. To fix that in a simple supply/demand balance you need to see a restriction in supply which is what is occurring, now whether that then results in improved conditions and pay is anybodys guess but the restriction of labour to push up demand is almost precisely what it was meant to do.

And nothing needs to "sink in" for me, your figures are correct about imports and exports. I'm not disputing them.

 

Is it a Brexit thing? 100k vacancies but only 20k foreign drivers have left. More blame lies with the industry for treating their staff like shit

 

And if the industry can convince the public/governments into it being all about Brexit then they'll just get their visas for the cheap labour, keep underpaying their staff and treating them like shit.

And apparently this will be a good thing?

 

Simple figures are Brexit 20k and pandemic 40k due to test cancellations maybe you could say another 40k at least for the industry being a crappy one to work in but absolutely no matter how you look at it Brexit isn't helping yet again

Seems like an easy defence for Brexit being a ball ache is that there are always other factors which is naturally true but actually I don't see that as a defence for Brexit a defence for Brexit would be something positive not yet more bad results

 

It is also easy to say everything is Brexit fault even if it is only a minority contributing factor.

 

We need better paid jobs in many industries, at the expense of corporate profits, but that will not happen. We are a profoundly unequal society, but an “I’m alright Jack” attitude prevails across much of society. The pandemic briefly challenged this as people with previously secure, comfortable incomes could suddenly see that disappearing and then facing the nightmare of how to keep their homes and feeding themselves and their families.

You are right, too many industries have been able to survive on cheap labour and awful working conditions. Subsidised by Universal Credit, whose recipients are stigmatised for claiming and have been advised in the past couple of weeks (by two Government ministers that I am aware of), to look for better paid jobs. This completely ignores the system we have created.

Economically, I think we are at a dangerous point in the country. Inflation is rising, partly because of labour supply imbalances and shortages, but also because as an importer of energy and raw materials we cannot avoid importing inflation as demand grows across the world. At the same time, we are about to cut £80 a month from the poorest in society at a time when they will be hit with rising food and energy costs.

We need to increase wages, but for this to be viable, what needs to happen is to reduce the disparity in incomes between the richer and the poorest. This can be through redistribution of income through taxation, but this runs into the problem of hitting individuals/businesses who cannot avoid paying tax and so they continue to fund the problematic status quo. What ultimately needs to change is concerted global partnerships to clampdown on companies making billions in profit, but paying minimal (relatively) tax. Very hard to achieve, although the EU was starting to make progress on this. Otherwise we continue as we are, with the slightly better off subsidising the poorest AND allowing (some) businesses to underpay their staff. Groups of people pointing their fingers at each other, while the real rich just carry on.

Enjoyed that rant.

 

According to the Government and DVLA figures we have just over 600,000 people with an HGV licence in the country yet only half that around 300,000 work as HGV drivers the rest working in other areas because of poor pay and conditions..

 

Not a rant some very true comments especially lower paid worker getting their wages subsidised with Universal Credit etc, so when government point out the great and good about these hand outs we the taxpayers are actually subsidising business.
In an interview last night with guy who had a restaurant was saying in his establishment he pays minimum wage and all tips go to the staff, but the way he said he paid minimum wage you'd think he was doing his staff a favour.

 

I'm just waiting to see some positives might be waiting a few decades yet though

 

Shit doesnt spin into gold mate no matter how hard you try

 

On a brighter note, comedy will be back on our screens this week with the Labour party conference...

 

It does if the gold your panning for is a vote from the gullible electorate

Blue passports smdh

 

And the weird thing is that if the government increased the minimum wage or universal credit some people would thing that was amazing.

But if the pay and conditions of workers are increased just because of demand/supply effects of market forces then that is bad.