Most liked posts in thread: Brexit - 2nd Referendum - The (Bradford City FC) Peoples Vote

If the EU wants a hard border that is up to them. Not our problem as we won't be part of the EU so we won't have to abide by their rulings.

We can make it VERY clear that WE don't want a hard border but if they do then they can set one up. Simple.

 

Workers rights are the worst they have ever been in this country.

Wages at many big companies has DROPPED in real terms MASSIVELY over the last couple of decades. Why? Simple, because big business has welcomed with open arms an army of cheap labour from Eastern Europe and other immigration. They love it! Big bosses salaries have sky-rocketed whilst the working man and woman has had to endure wage increases way less than inflation.

All of this is whilst we are IN the EU!!!!!!!!!!

Then take working hours.

When I was younger we'd arrive at work and have a tea break after a couple of hours. Then we'd have an hour for lunch, and then another tea break in the afternoon. Now, my son gets TWENTY minutes break after working six hours.

If your employees work more than 6 hours a day, you must ensure that they are given a break, the duration of which is specified in the collective agreements or by national law.

(In UK this has been set at "one uninterrupted 20 minute rest break during their working day, if they work more than 6 hours a day. This could be a tea or lunch break."

SOURCE: https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/human-resources/working-hours-holiday-leave/working-hours/index_en.htm

That is outrageous!!! An absolute disgrace.

All of this is whilst we are IN the EU!!!!!!!!!!

You are painting a picture of the EU being this heavenly place, but the reality - all over Europe - is that there are massive divides, serious poverty, workers who are treat like slaves (read up on the likes of Amazon in the UK) and a LOT of dissatisfaction in many countries.

I am passionate about workers rights and human rights, but feel that at the moment things under the EU have been very much in the favour of big business. If you don't belief me take a look at the salaries of the CEOs and Chairmen and how dramatically the spread of wealth has moved from the poor into the pockets of the rich.

 

Must be dreadful in Singapore, High wages, Low taxation, Good public services, Great education quality and some of the best healthcare in the world, Why would we want that when we can stay in the EU and continue to decline in all these areas?

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/singapore-among-top-countries-in-un-health-and-living-standards-list
"Singapore scored the highest (98) in occupational risk burden, which indicated that it was best able to protect the labour rights and promote a safe and secure working environment for all workers, including migrant workers, in particular women migrants."

 

Could start the break up of the UK that’s what concerns me most tbh. You could have a full on withdrawl and the turmoil that will create and then you can bet your bottom dollar what will come next, especially north of the border.

I voted remain and have seen nothing to make me change my mind. Having said that, the vote was done, i just wish they’d get it sorted so they can get back to their proper day jobs. What happens in the future good or bad for normal people (and i’m suspecting the latter), the instigators of it all should not be forgotten.

 

With the first referendum, I doubt that many people had thoughts in their minds about
the single market,
the customs union,
free movement of goods for just-in-time manufacturers,
chaos and blockages at UK ports due to new requirements for customs and goods verifications,
a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic,
the break-up of the United Kingdom,
the collapse of the pound,
possible restrictions on your rights to travel to and buy property in Europe,
the convenience of having free trade and movement of goods with our closest neighbours in the world's biggest trading bloc,
the difficulties of negotiating alternative trade deals, with poorer and more distant countries,
£36 billion of financial obligations to the EU.
And many other issues that have come to light in the Brexit discussions

What I am sure they DID have in mind were things like:
£350m per day into the NHS (a lie)
uncontrolled immigration (but the economy needs foreign workers and taxpayers in agriculture, the health service and service industries for example, faced with an ageing population)
being told what to do by Brussels unelected bureaucrats.
This where the biggest misunderstandings arise. Brussels is a city. I suppose they meant the EU, which is a collective of institutions. The decisions come from the Council of Ministers, which means the ELECTED governments of each of the member countries. Their decisions have to be approved by the European Parliament, which is directly ELECTED by the European people, or at least by those who can be bothered to turn out and vote. If you didn't vote, don't complain.
The European Commission is the civil service tasked with applying and enforcing the decisions by Council and approved by Parliament. The 12 commissioners heading the Commission were all nominated by the elected governments to take charge of specific portfolios, for a limited period, to execute the Council's decisions.
The European Commision institution is made up of SELECTED officials, who all had relevant qualifications, experience and passed entrance exams and interviews - like me. Jean-Claude Juncker and I have never told you what to do but simply underlined what is legal and permissible under legislation.
To call any civil servant an unelected bureaucrat is true but silly and dismissive of anybody you know who works as a civil servant in the tax office, the DHSS, the transport department, local government, teaching etc etc.
"Unelected bureaucrat" is just a stupid, empty, tub-thumping chant from the likes of the Daily Mail and the Express.

I believe many people have learned a lot more since the first referendum and are now better informed about what they want and about what is best for the UK.

Another thing: the first referendum offered 2 choices - remain or leave. In reality, these were not 2 choices. Remain was simple. As you were, remain in the EU, nothing changes
Leave was a different matter. There was no single leave strategy. Some leavers argued that it would be advantageous to leave but idiotic to leave the single market and the customs union, others did not. Some looked at the Norway model, where they benefit from the single market access, pay into it but have no seat at the decision-making table. Some looked at Swiss or Canadian models, or Canada ++. Remain was a single option but I have seen it said that leave had 27 different permutations.
I would say that Remain was already the biggest vote in the 1st referendum.

 

And if we don’t like the result we can have a third one

 

Well if we can do trade deals ourselves then just like the boss of Aston Martin said on tv yesterday the exporters who sell to the rest of the world who make up around 60% of our exports would gain immensely from trade deals instead of having to pay immense ever growing bucket loads of cash to the EU

 

That's not how tariffs work. The consumer pays the tariffs, not the exporter and certainly not the tax payers from the country of origin.

 

Did you not read the document that was published prior to the referendum ?, it stated by voting Leave we would exit all of the EU doctrines including the single market etc . To come back now and say " Leavers didn't really understand what out meant " is a bit of a red herring . The government got elected on the strength of letting the people decide , they didn't expect the result though . What are your thoughts on a EU army ?, the German MEP who stated that MORE powers should be transferred to the EU to " prevent " other coutries being able to leave ?, like what as been mentioned the EU is like the Hotel California ie :- You can checkout any time you like but you can never leave . Nobody was given the option when Major and his cronies signed up to this corrupt money pit , and i bet if the people knew what this many headed Hydra was to become it would have been voted down . With regards a 2nd " peoples " vote why did Blier and Clown agree to it then back down and sign an agreement when Liebour was last in power ? . Both sides lied but you only highlight the Leave portion -- strange that .

 

Carpenters urgently required.
Cabinet falling apart,
Apply to 10 Downing Street ASAP.
(No tools required - the building is full of them)

 

Freedom of movement. If you want that you get s shit deal. Do people really hate immigrants that much that they are willing to risk everything?

 

The 'agreement' is full of empty promises which may never be achieved ....we will still be begging for most of above years down the line..
All and more should have been cut and dried 2 years ago..

 

All well and good until Ireland said that they'd veto the deal without a potentially indefinite backstop. It's often like people don't realise that there are two sides to the table. It's even more surprising that people don't realise that this whole process was, from the outset, designed to stop people from leaving the EU.

 

The first vote has no chance of passing, absolutely zero. What happens next will be the defining moment.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, I don't see any vehicle for a second referendum, I really can't envisage a scenario where the government dramatically changes its policy to call for one. The government are weak, but they're not that weak.

Then the next option, a general election? Perhaps. If the DUP are to effectively sever their confidence and supply arrangement, then there is no functioning majority in parliament. Regardless, once this vote is defeated, Labour WILL table a vote of confidence in the government and the DUP will be crucial here. There may also be a mad cap plan by certain kamikaze Tories to force May's hand and take it to the brink. Either way, if there is a vote of no confidence, there will be a 2 week cooling off period where they will vote again. The kamikaze Tories may well be forced into line in this period.

If there's no general election, what else? It's basically then down to this deal or no deal at all. Markets might start to get jittery and the HoC may be forced into acquiescing (think TARP). I think this is the most likely scenario. There's a small chance of a last minute renegotiation, but given the rhetoric to date between the two, this feels unlikely.

Either way, this is just the first of many hurdles. This is effectively an agreement on the future relationship. If we're under a backstop, then this will have to be unilaterally extended through parliament each time, there are loads of bumps in the road ahead yet, this is just the first one.

 

Why do remainers think they know why people voted leave.

It was a democratic referendum. We had our reasons as did you.

If anything the importance of the reasons I voted leave has increased immeasurably

And as for your comment about 'unelected bureaucrat" being just a stupid, empty, tub-thumping chant from the likes of the Daily Mail and the Express. Are you being serious? Maybe you need to read The Economist or how about this article from The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/27/eu-democratic-bandwagon-juncker-president-wanted

You raise some interesting points in your long post but do you not think it shows little respect for the many knowledgeable, well read and informed people who voted leave.

I do not read The Daily Mail and The Express. I read The Guardian, The Observer and occasionally the Weekend FT.

 

Not all, but the majority of arguments put forward for leaving relied heavily on the notion that the EU needed us more than we needed them. In fact, that was one of the major tag lines for the entire campaign. The EU will give us a good trade deal because it's in their best interests, the EU will let us close our borders but still allow us to bring in EU doctors and nurses, because why not?

Lo and behold, it turns out that the EU did not need us more than we need them and Brexit was always doomed to fail as a result. It's very easy to blame the current farce on politicians without being able to provide a single solution to any of the complexities that face us at the moment.