Most liked posts in thread: VAR

Without VAR, we wondered if a few referees and commentators were stupid. With VAR, we now have proof that some are.

 

Didn't like it after the World Cup. Hate it after one week of Premier League. Wolves were robbed. Fans are complaining about stoppage times killing atmosphere. Players and fans stop celebrating until decisions are reached - yet still sometimes wrong. It will come our way of we do nothing. Quite happy to boycott a game or stage other protest to get rid. Which week are fans going to choose to protest? Money, money, money is what it is all about. It's ruining the game.

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/and-finally/it-seemed-to-be-overused-matchgoing-fans-react-to-first-weekend-of-var-38394308.html

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/tag/lazio-fans-protest-var/

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/16/players-called-back-penalty-half-time-mainz-freiburg-var-chaos

https://deadspin.com/var-malfunction-turns-african-champions-league-final-in-1835277810

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/sep/27/bundesliga-fans-give-dfb-the-silent-treatment-dortmund-hit-seven-protests-football

https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/we-will-claim-back-our-game-german-fans-launch-latest-protest-to-coincide-with-football-leaks

 

oh, and what about the grab on Laporte's hnd immediately before it? Would have been interesting had the ref awarded a penalty for the clear and obvious pull.

 

My hatred of VAR grows every week. I just pray it never gets introduced in the Football League

 

think the problem arises with the mentality of football fans, managers and media. Before VAR the footballing public struggled to deal with a vital reality in football. The reality being a) most laws are interpretative in football and b) some poor sod has to make a decision. Managers on the receiving end of a 50/50 decision going against them would forever berate and crucify officials for their decision. The officiating bodies have buckled and relented to VAR and started to make rules that are non interpretative to satisfy demands for 'consistency'. By and large in other sports the public have accepted the reality that the man in the middle has to make a decision and you just get on with it, even when it doesn't go your way.

The referees did do an incredible job. At the top level you'd be lucky to name more than a handful of decisions each season that we're universally condemned.

Now we have VAR there is even more demand for consistency. A lot of the complaints about the way VAR is being used on here are symptomatic of fans thinking they are talking sense but a lot of it falls down when you think it through in terms of how these suggestions play out in practise. The one that makes me tear my hair out is when people say 'it should only be used for clear and obvious'. Sounds sensible in theory but it would lead to total chaos. It would be a matter of weeks before you were getting managers crying about how their decision that wasn't reversed was more 'clear and obvious' than the one 3 weeks ago. Somebody has to make a decision about what constitutes 'clear and obvious' and that's why they are avoiding VAR on any interpretative decisions, like whether or not a foul has taken place, like Rodri at the weekend.

Some fans might say 'well they need to make sure the laws are applied consistently'. The problem is - you can't! Take a defensive handball for example. You can talk about silhouettes and natural positions and ball to hand etc as much as you like - you will never have 2 handball that are identical and you can't expect referees to mentally spool through every previous decision that season to attempt to get close to consistency. I wouldn't be surprised if they buckle again under the demands from idiotic fans for consistency, throw the towel in and say 'fine! If it hits your arm it's a handball'. The law would get rightly criticised.

As above though, the football World has to accept, you can either have laws that fit the game but require interpretation and inconsistency, or laws that are stupid but easy to apply consistently.

Your reference to other sports is useful in that an appeals system would solve a lot of problems. Put the onus for appeal on the managers.

The biggest problem overall is the celebration issue. However I think the handball incidents will be very rare and the officials have been freakishly unlucky having had 2 to deal with in the first weeks of the prem season. From now on I think most disallowed goals will be marginal handball and any fan worth their salt will know when there is a suspicion of offside anyway.

 

For me, I think VAR works and does the job it’s meant to do. Personally, I didn’t want it and still don’t want it. I like the ups and downs of a season and referee decisions are all part of the drama of football. However, many people wanted it and I doubt it will ever go away.

I think the biggest issue with VAR is that it has highlighted some issues with the laws of the game. For instance the offside rule being any ball playing body part (even a toe) which would previously have never been picked up by a linesman. Similarly with the handball rule, being any contact with an arm/hand leading to a goal. Both the Man City goal and Wolves goal that were ruled out by VAR we’re correct decisions but it put the strange handball rule under the spotlight. I think IFAB need to start thinking of redefining some of the rules because, with VAR, the way a game is refereed has changed and therefore the rules need to change with it.

 

VAR is full of problems, some obvious decisions that should be reviewed are not and some that are obviously right are reviewed, The offside decisions are a disgrace where a player is judged offside by inches when moving at speed, The flaw in that is that if the reviewer moves the frame back one frame he is onside or forward one frame offside, This despite the technology not been able to accurately determine when the players foot made contact with the ball, A small error factor allowing for the contact with the ball would help get the decisions better,

The fact is that we have referees judging other referees by VAR and some are just not up to the job and are reluctant to overturn a colleague despite obvious mistakes

 

Nonsense. Both decisions were spot on in terms of how VAR is deployed. But therein lies the problem. Its deployed incorrectly

 

Watford - Chelsea game, Delefeu (or whatever) draws contact, takes a couple of steps and realises the ball will go out, goes down holding his leg, ref gives goal kick. VAR intervenes and after a hellish long wait, awards penalty. All normal for VAR but the commentators over here were brilliant, Arlo White and Lee Dixon. During the thinking part of it, Dixon did his thing, noted the incidental contact and how once he figured the ball was going out, the guy hit the deck. Dixin then said "if this is given as a penalty, the game is gone". Decision came down and Dixon, White and all studio bodies were amazed. A couple of minutes later Chelsea were ready to make a change, White says "Chelsea about to make a change", Dixon, quick as a flash " can they take the ref off?" Well I liked it. Not sure if you get Arlo White and Lee Dixon doing commentaries over there but they are excellent. I also love the insight Dixon gives, really good stuff even though he says a lot of stuff in our English which the locals can't understand.

 

I was very scepitcal when it was introduced but we were informed it was to help the referee, yet as you say that was not the case yesterday VAR actually over rode the referee, we'll have AL or our lass refereeing soon they're never wrong.

 

Offside for an armpit? Fans don't care about this nitpicking garbage if there's no advantage gained. And they're changing the game rules to try make VAR look better even though the game looks worse. Sack VAR and the people that brought it in! It's all about money and not the joy of the game. MOTD are now talking about dumping it. Will it make it to the season end? Dump it NOW!

 

@SimonW we've sort of had this discussion before but the GLT is an example of no argument technology. I can't remember when it was first used but I do remember that absolutely nobody quibbled with it and it was instant.
This VAR thing is neither. Especially when they don't seem to be interested in Judo throws etc.

 

Regarding the Liverpool goal offside decision.

My understanding is that VAR is supposed to reverse clear and obvious errors. That's is what we are led to believe, I don't think it has been used in that manor but that was my understanding of why it was brought in.

The Liverpool goal was ruled out as offside by the linesman during the game, VAR didn't rule out the goal initially it just checked to see if a clear and obvious error had been made. In my opinion a clear and obvious error hadn't been made, it was incredibly tight and it the kind of decision that without VAR could be given either way.

Compare this to the Son goal v Leicester earlier in the season, that goal was given on the pitch but then ruled out by VAR.

To me both those decision should have stood as called on the pitch as no clear or obvious error had been made, for example like when Arsenal scored v Man U and it was originally given as offside even though Maguire was playing everyone onside by about 4 yards. That is clear and obvious.

I don't want VAR re refereeing the game, I want it to step in when a howler has been committed, not to redefine marginal offsides by a *@?$ hair. Nor like yesterday should people be stood around for 3min waiting for a decision.

They need to accept that mistakes have been made with the use of VAR, reel it back in a bit and only step in when clear errors have been made. They should always back the original call on the field unless there is clear evidence to overturn it and that is the limit to which is should be used.