Todays society

Maybe you're correct , but people voted to continue with the 1st past the post system , proportional reprensentation doesen't work , all the countries that try it have become a disaster area with elections every other year . Italy - Isreal are prime examples .

 

Well, they've moved it since I lived there then..

 

You seem to be either misunderstanding or misinterpreting my point. I agree it's not about parties, and I wasn't trying to make a party political point. Nor was I trying to suggest solutions to Labour's problems, which I accept are very real.

I posted that my experience at work and amongst my friends is very different from the right of centre consensus on here. Trevor suggested that I'm an in a liberal elite bubble and that people like me are a tiny proportion of the population. I merely used the election example to demonstrate that far more people hold liberal/ left of centre views than he likes to believe. That's it. That's all I was trying to say.

 

Again, a different issue from the point I was making. Worth debating, but irrelevant to the discuss at hand.

 

So would you not call Undercliffe city centre then? I think of anything within the ring road as city centre.

 

I can't see many other options to be fair , but would like to point out that Scotland is heading down the same road . More people voted against leaving the Union than voted for the SNP , more people voted against the SNP than voted for them ( they are currently propped up by the greens ) , yet They are pressing for another ( once in a lifetime ) referendum on independence on the provision of winning the next elections in May .

 

I can't see many other options to be fair , but would like to point out that Scotland is heading down the same road . More people voted against leaving the Union than voted for the SNP , more people voted against the SNP than voted for them ( they are currently propped up by the greens ) , yet They are pressing for another ( once in a lifetime ) referendum on independence on the provision of winning the next elections in May .

 

I really don't know Undercliffe but the City Circle bus came up Cemetery rd and to the west was /is Lidget Green and to the east would be Listerhills...

 

But are you not in that sort of bubble when your in agreement that all of your particular acquaintances are of roughly an aligned persuasion. It might not be liberal elite but uts definitely aligned to your leanings? By equating it to the election results it got a little bit conflicted between party politics and ideology and I did kinda run one one part of that so I do apologise for that.

I don't agree with Trevor that it's a tiny minority but everyone over estimates the amount of people who agree with them when the majority are bang in yhe middle.

I don't actually think there's too much of a consensus on here at all to be honest. It's pretty well spread. There's plenty of intelligent challenges to most viewpoints.

 

Why can't students be working class? My dad was a postman and my mum worked her way up from a secretary to a solicitor and yet students are continually classed as some kind of offspring of rich people situation. Since uni was opened up as much as it is now, a significant part of the student population are from working class backgrounds.

 

They can I didn't mean to imply they can't.

The outlook of many modern left wing students (focus on identity politics, use of language, equality of outcome, etc, etc) is different to the traditional working class identifiers of the my parents generation though. It's literally the internal issues the Labour Party is faced with.

 

100% and part of the issue at the moment is that we can all spot and to some extents vilify those who are on the far right.

The ones who lean to the more extreme end of the left are treated in a much different way. Its almost like its possible and accepted to be too far right but impossible to be too far left, it gives some people a skewed idea of where the centre actually sits.

 

I think that particular disparity is more intergenerational than to do with just students. You;re absolutely right that's the main issue the Labour party is grappling with, but whilst students are typically more socially liberal, I would say that also applies to young people in a more general sense anyway and in time will become a significant issue for the country at large and not just the labour party if it isnt already. I think there is a huge value split between young and old in this country at the moment on certain key issues that is causing a lot of the friction in society. From my own personal experiences, I believe both sets of people want a just and fair society, but the what that looks like and how to go about it are where the disagreement is

 

It's always been the case. Young people have always been more inclined to the left but historically people don't keep the same values. That's not a new phenomena.

However the issues I was really pointing out was that the activist left that is currently growing (I listed a few other categories alongside students but what you call them isn't really important, it's more the ideals behind them) who seem more bothered about putting pronouns in their bios and "eating the rich" do not in any way match up with those who see Labour and the left as the party of the miners and the working grafters.

The more they sway towards and focus on the former the more they actually lose the latter.

 

I would say after Brexit and the past couple of years that difference is more pronounced than it ever has been.

I would argue a lot of young people go on about eating the rich because they have been systematically shut out of any economic opportunities the rich are enjoying. Not an unreasonable sentiment for the first cohort likely to be worse off than their parents for a long time and on the back of 30-40 years of stagnant wage growth. I think anyone would feel pretty venomous in that situation.

However I do agree that narrowing down the focus on identity politics is not going to resonate with old school labour voters whatsoever. As much as the right of the party needs to see decrying corbyn as unelectable then putting up owen smith and angela eagle and acting like the left isn't extremely effective at boots on the ground organising and campaigning, the momentum side of the left needs to see that there are an awful lot of people who would otherwise be supportive who don't feel represented by the direction they're going down. Until those two factions realise that they aint winning anything without each other, it will be tory land for a long time indeed.