Israel

I am suggesting doing anything that can stop the slaughter. Maybe a UN force can give Israel the security it needs until the two sides can be brought together to find a solution to what is a very situation in the area

 

So you are suggesting sitting back and watching thousands of people getting slaughtered

 

Israel has the military might and Allies to secure itself as much as anything the UN can do. The only thing that can stop this, to my mind, is pressure in the Arab world for a 2 state solution.

You can’t create the illusion or ‘assurance’ of security for a people who’ve been through one holocaust, and who are surrounded by an ideology that openly calls for their destruction, and backs that threat with attacks like the ones on 7th Oct.

 

We all know the history and what happened to the Arabs who lived in what is now israel. But that is by the by now. We have an organisation the UN and that is the body that must do something about the slaughter of innocent children and women that is the only thing that matters now

 

It’s a hugely complex issue Park. I don’t see what the UN can do. There are calls for a ceasefire, because what’s happening is horrific. I can understand Israel taking literally threats against its existence though. It’s such a tangled web, I can’t see a way back from it right now.

 

Would you try and stop Hamas and tell them to be good boys and stop all their killing and we'll let you off this time..? .....crazy...

 

Read my post the actions on the day were inhuman and they were animals. The Palestinians have genuine grievances which does not excuse their actions. But so far in their revenge the Israelis have killed over 10.000 people and if this continues many more women and children who are innocent will be slaughtered and nothing justifies that. The hostages need to be returned and the killing must stop

 

And will be the same if it doesn't continue, maybe not tomorrow but in time to come.......I know it's difficult but that's how it is .....

 

That’s why intervention is needed which should be lead by the states. But they have very weak leadership so it’s down to the UN

 

A certain amount of immigration is good, but there have to be limits. Whether we have had too much immigration may be debated, but it is clear we have had too much of the wrong kind of immigrant -- ones for whom "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" is an unwelcome if not completely unknown concept. Can one turn the wrong kind into the right kind? I'd like to think so, but I'm not all that optimistic. Indeed current events suggest it will be a very difficult thing to do.

As for Ukraine, Israel has no choice but to fight and win. Both wars are existential for the invaded/attacked parties. Hamas and its supporters must be eradicated, but after 75 years now of indoctrination that Jews must be killed and Israel must cease to exist, that will require operations on a very large scale.
I was reading the other day some reminiscences of a bloke who decided to walk on Christmas Eve 1964 from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. Two accounts of interactions with non-Jewish locals over the period of his residence in Jerusalem are relevant here. First some boy scouts, who insisted that their organisation was founded for the purpose of teaching them to kill Jews -- in vain did he try to talk about Baden-Powell and the real purpose of Scouting. Second, some policemen who wanted to check his passport, and were not thrilled to find it was West German. You see, Hitler had been good, but then Adenauer started paying compensation to the Jews... How to re-educate people who have been brought up with the Jews bad / Israel bad / both must be exterminated mindset?

Only problem is that the UN, as the Ukraine war has shown, is about as useful as busty substances on a bull, and has in general not been very friendly towards Israel.

RCB

 

But its not 'revenge'. They're seeking to destroy the organisation that launched indiscriminate attacks against civilians and who repeatedly make claims of wanton destruction of all Israel. Hamas deliberately hides amongst their own civilian population - as humanitarian efforts fo used on the south of Gaza what did Hamas do? Start launching rockets from the south of Gaza.

The deaths are horrific and each 'side' will believe in the merits of its own cause. But only one side seems to be deliberately targeting solely the civilian population. Deaths, and innocent deaths are an inevitable consequence of war. In WW2, far more German civilians died than Birtish, but that doesn't mean Britain was the antagonist or at fault for the war.

 

Maybe this could be revisited https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Accords, Trump tried to talk to the likes of Russia, North Korea etc not send in the troops.

 

This is the foundation of peace. Trump is seen as a parody in public discourse but these accords are a huge basis for negotiation of peace and a 2 state solution. Received very little media attention at the time, presumably because it didn't fit the caricaturisation of Trump.

 

The only issue I have with this figure is that it's Hamas who are pushing the casualty figures for Palestine, and it is in their interest to push the figures up. When that hospital was hit, it was said 500 died. They also said it was the IDF who hit the hospital. since then it appears clear that this was a "friendly fire hit" and most of the damage was to a car park.

If Hamas told me today was Tuesday I would ask for a second opinion.

There is no doubt however that innocent people and civilians are being killed but as long as Hamas exist history will keep repeating itself. You can not appease a terrorist organisation, Afghanistan showed that by not destroying the Taliban they just come back.

It might have some short term pain but Hamas need destroying entirely otherwise the long term pain will be far far worse.

 

And what's surely indisputable, is that this mass death wouldn't be taking place if Hamas hadn't targeted and killed 1400 Jews inside Israel on 7th Oct.

 

Whatever international 'influence' can be asserted, needs to continue though I have major doubts with the stance of the US and it's allies.
The deaths of innocent people on either side is horrendous and should be condemned by all. The images are appalling coming from Gaza , as they were from Israel.

@Park bantam I'm totally with your thinking and the international community should do more. We should not see the slaughter of innocent people.

 

I see the far left are pushing the narrative of why aren't football games cancelled for armistice day, clearly without any knowledge of what happens on armistice day at a football match and how every year the respect is universally observed.

On a separate note, if anything happens on Saturday by the pro Palestine protests then it's all on the Met at this stage. I hope there is no disruption but seeing as the Rochdale cenotaph has been defaced I hold little confidence in it passing peacefully.

 

No, it'll be "Sorry for the carnage, we didn't see this coming, lessons will be learned" ......

 

I mentioned it before it looks like one sector of the Labour party are trying to force the agenda, this is all Starmer needs with regards the next General Election and building Labours credibility up with the votiers.

https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/23909008.bradford-mp-imran-hussain-resigned-labour-party-role/