George Floyd copper

I see a statue of a black man in Bristol has been bleached now. Who saw something like that coming.

 

It's pandering for votes.

Everything I see at the minute tells me that we're only going to create a more divided, polarized society. Its not good.

 

I would agree on that point for sure. Race and the role it plays in a persons life is an insanely complex subject to talk about and in a lot of ways I don't think that proper debate is happening. Some on the reactionary left are stifling debate rather than looking to engage and some of the far right are either doubling down on their prejudice or sticking their heads in the sand about there being an issue. My issue with the colston statue was it wasnt telling the full tale about his life, and people tried for something like 40 odd years to even just get the plaque amended but nothing happened. I think 40 years is a fair wait before you lose your rag about something like that.

The police have a difficult job, we're lucky we don't have people in the police here like Bob 'I've been involved in four shootings and I'm fine' Kroll who runs the American police union. However with the black community there are long standing trust issues based on past incidents and to a degree how they are treat now, which is referenced in one of the links in my earlier post. For that trust to come back they have to be seen as accountable when it can sometimes feel they arent. I also think we ask way too much of the police now, weve cut that much from mental health crisis support that we're now expecting them to deal with seriously unwell people they aren't really trained to handle, so its no surprise that issues crop up and people get hurt. another complex issue i think buddy!

 

I can't say for sure, I'm hoping it has, maybe a vote winner for some ?.

 

I'll be honest, I'd never heard of Edward Colston until this week. I have sympathy with the idea that his statue shouldn't be there. I have a concern with the manner of its removal. And its not even as simple as me having a worry because it was torn down - I generally don't believe that actions like that should be allowed, but I do recognise that extreme action is occasionally merited. My worry is that its part of a much broader narrative - a stream of TV shows now being removed, the boarding up of war memorials. Those actions won't achieve anything other than more division. As much as education over the context of historic slavery is important, if we can't agree as a nation to be proud of and commemorate our role in fighting oppression and racial hatred, fascism in WW2 - we don't have a future. Its sacred.

An example of the difficulty of policing and the perpetuation of 'mistreatment' of black communities, below. I was dismayed by this. Its a brief video. The 'bandwagon' comment is clumsy, but the approach by both officers is calm and reasoned. They've responded to a call from a neighbor citing 'suspicious coming and going' from a house. The police then challenge this couple to show Id and proof of ownership of the vehicle, but the couple refuse and become argumentative, assuming that the challenge is racially driven. The police need to respond to all sorts of incidents and the best approach for any law abiding citizen is simply to comply. I've been stopped by the police twice in my lifetime. First when I was 18 and was driving my dads car, which was a BMW. I had no problem with it - 18 year old driving a very nice car, 20 odd years ago. Fair enough, I just showed my licence and followed up with details of my insurance, there wasn't an issue. The second time was last year. I'd picked my 14 year old daughter and her friend up from school after they'd returned from a school trip to France. It was 1am. A police car saw me, a man with 2 young girls in his car at 1am, and pulled me over. A quick discussion, no argument, all sorted. They even apologized, which worried me. I told them not to apologise and urged them to do the same in any similar circumstance.

Policing is a hugely difficult job, made impossible if people assume that the motive for stopping, intervening or responding to calls is based on race.

https://news.sky.com/story/ipswich-police-sorry-for-telling-black-woman-shes-jumping-on-bandwagon-of-black-lives-matters-12005101

 

This is where I got the picture from https://news.sky.com/story/george-floyd-death-labour-leader-sir-keir-starmer-takes-a-knee-in-support-of-black-lives-matter-movement-12003611

Also here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8403307/Labour-leader-Keir-Starmer-takes-knee-solidarity-Black-Lives-Matter-protesters.html

And here https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11822873/labour-leader-keir-starmer-takes-a-knee-george-floyd/
looks like it's genuine to me ?.

 

Shameful, appeasement signalling at it's worst...

 

We now have the scenario where people are pulling down inanimate objects with other groups of people stood round inanimate objects in the belief they are protecting them. What should have been protests to question the role of the police in our societies has seen wanton destruction without a clear understanding as to why they are doing it. There are very clear agendas at work here, this is not just an off the cuff series of protests aimed at getting justice for the killing of an unarmed man under police arrest. Worryingly, and as is always the case with clever use of divide and conquer, I'm seeing a divide emerge that I'd not seen for some time. If the idea of these protests was to unite people then the tangent the protests have taken has had the opposite effect. And over the last 2 or 3 days I've seen the term 'extreme far right' being thrown around with gay abandon by the media. They need to be very careful as to where this progresses, slavery, although wrong, was a very small part of this countries history in a world where slave labour has been used since the dawn of man. It should not be used to try and rewrite history as to what this country did through the centuries.

 

We now have the scenario where people are pulling down inanimate objects with other groups of people stood round inanimate objects in the belief they are protecting them. What should have been protests to question the role of the police in our societies has seen wanton destruction without a clear understanding as to why they are doing it. There are very clear agendas at work here, this is not just an off the cuff series of protests aimed at getting justice for the killing of an unarmed man under police arrest. Worryingly, and as is always the case with clever use of divide and conquer, I'm seeing a divide emerge that I'd not seen for some time. If the idea of these protests was to unite people then the tangent the protests have taken has had the opposite effect. And over the last 2 or 3 days I've seen the term 'extreme far right' being thrown around with gay abandon by the media. They need to be very careful as to where this progresses, slavery, although wrong, was a very small part of this countries history in a world where slave labour has been used since the dawn of man. It should not be used to try and rewrite history as to what this country did through the centuries.

 

'Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.'
'I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character.'

Martin Luther King

Sentiments that aren't borne out in the current movement we're seeing.

 

Brilliant post. If we're going to teach the history of slavery, lets do it in full context; its origins, its place in funding part of our history and the role played by those to abolish it.

Similarly, on policing. The idea of racial victimization is now so widely shared - without foundation in my view - that there's a real risk of any person of colour being stopped by police, claiming vicitimisation. Immediately. And what will happen? Police will become fearful of policing - we're already seeing it and crime will increase. And given that black communities suffer most at the hands of crime, they'll suffer most. How does that help? It'll only perpetuate and worsen the cycle.

 

Problem we've ended up with is posts like yours above that ask for dialogue and reasoned debate get shut down before it has a chance to get started and that's where we're at now, the likes of Fawlty towers episodes getting pulled because of context a minority has decided its wrong.
Here's an example of hypocrisy and sums up why reasoned debate will never exist. Have a look at large number of these protesters campaigning their disgust of the slave trade. Just take a good look at what they are wearing. Yeah, some tasty clobber worn by these.trendy protesters. And yet they are so thick they can't see the irony. Wearing the likes of yeezys and other expensive clobber, but never asking where it actually comes from or who actually sits there and makes it. Yeah Nike, you stand up for those poor souls while your clothes are made in sweatshops, with yeah, you guessed it, slave labour.
More important looking sick and peng than understanding what youre protesting against I guess.

 

There's no room for common sense. Not yet, anyway. Because as you say, any attempt at reasoned debate is being shut down. for example, whether people agree or disagree with my view, other than one idiot, no one has inferred that there's anything prejudiced or offensive about what I'm posting - because there isn't. However, I wouldn't post any of what I've posted on here on my personal social media. Because people are losing their jobs and being attacked for simply having an opinion.

I think it'll get worse before there's a chance it'll get better. Because I think the nonsense aspect of it is going to have to get so out of hand that its no longer seen as outrageous for people to say 'hang on, this is getting ridiculous'.

 

What I've read on social media genuinely worries me. People taking of wanting the army brought in to shoot people, asking for people to 'assemble the troops' or 'football lads' will sort it out. Is this really where we've ended up? People wanting to kill each other over what should have been a collective effort to oversee change in a corrupt police system. The human race deserves everything it gets.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/pm-anti-racism-protests-hijacked-by-extremists-12005317

I think Boris is spot on here. What we're seeing play out is going to be a huge test of leaders in both political parties. Trying to take a softer, middle ground won't work. I think the political parties are going to have to take a firm position on 'the debate'.

 

Buffing up on my knowledge of NBA - as soon that will be the only thing allowed on our screens.

 

I think Labour are in a lot worse position than the Conservatives , most of the shadow front bench are itching to support the removal of the statues hence the attack on Pritti Patel yesterday . The letter penned by and then signed by most of the shadow bench and others proves this . Starmer must have allowed it's publication if he didn't it proves he's not in control . The vast majority are very angry watching the heritage of the UK ripped apart , Starmer knows this so thats is dilema , he would never gain office if he publicly backed the protest's , but if he try's to curtail the still Momentum controlled Labour party he could lose their backing , i dont think everything is rosy in the opposition group .

 

You’re in the wrong Baltic nation then my fired, I believe the Latvians are big into their basketball.