Most liked posts in thread: Edin interview in the times

Tosh. The English game is absolutely broken with all the money going to the big clubs who strangle the life out of grass roots football. Both the Premier League and Championship are becoming a closed shop. Go back over the last five years and have a proper look at the number of teams who were in League one five years ago that have become established in the Championship. We have a two tier league where the PL & CC interchange with each other and L1/ L2 do the same but very little long term movement between L1 & CC.

The whole structure of top flight football has removed the romance of teams rising all the way through the leagues as Swansea/ Carlisle/ Huddersfield did in the 1970's.

What's wrong with expressing a view that this should change and trying to force the issue ? Without views like this we will end up with the Championship and Premier League "ring fenced" in 5/10 years time, or worse still some stupid playoff system between L1 & CC like the ridiculous middle eights of Rugby League. The only way to break the stranglehold of the top two divisions is for more and more to speak out about it.

The best thing that could happen to English football is for the top 8/10 of the PL to piss off to a permanent European Super League and never come back. That tied with an evening out of money for those left would result in giving us football back. As things stand, from League One, only Sunderland have a prayer of ever becoming a permanent Championship/ PL fixture.

As far as we are concerned, there are too many of our supporters scared to death of making the changes we need to even try and break that stranglehold, but still expecting us to be able to do it without the changes. Einstein's definition of madness was doing what you've always done and expecting to get a different result. There is absolutely no way we could have done what we'd always done (signing older players on higher wages) and becoming a higher league team on a permanent basis.

Changes to the fabric of our club were needed, but as soon as someone comes in and tries to do it, he becomes the devil incarnate.

 

It's just one symptom of how and why the game is eating itself at the highest level. You can't flood the top flight with as much cash as happens, without appropriate cascade of funds, and expect anything other than a casm to appear between the top flight (maybe 2 top flights) and the rest. Throw in a lack of control around the way that top clubs stockpile players and it spells disaster for the lower leagues and for the development of players at the highest level- so the national side will continue to suffer too

 

With the amount of money PL clubs receive they should be sending out their best youngsters for next to nothing, look at Pickford if he'd not had loan spells I doubt he would be where he is now, it's far better than the PL2 or whatever it is. If they didn't give youngsters such ridiculous wages to start with this wouldn't be a big problem.

 

If it ever got to that stage, like rugby league, where it is near impossible for clubs to get promotion then I'd pack in watching professional football for good and I suspect plenty would. Most would have nothing to play for after game 4 or 5.

 

League clubs angry over cost of top-flight loans
exclusive
Martyn Ziegler, Chief Sports Reporter


August 17 2018, 12:01am, The Times



Rahic, the Bradford City chairman, says loan players should be free

Clubs in Sky Bet League One and Two are up in arms over the rising costs that Premier League sides are imposing when they send out players on loan.

A number of chairmen have raised concerns with the EFL’s leadership about the issue — one chairman has even called for League One and Two clubs to agree a cap on the amount that they will pay towards a top-flight player’s wages.

Another chairman wants to see lower-league clubs permitted to form formal relationships to become feeder clubs for top sides.

The League One and Two clubs feel they are providing first-team opportunities to develop players for the top sides but are also expected to pay increasing amounts to do so. They can also be “fined” by the loaning club if the player does not make a specified number of first-team appearances.

Liverpool are one of a number of leading clubs who impose clauses in their loan agreements that impose financial penalties — up to hundreds of thousands of pounds — if the player does not appear in three-quarters of the matches for the club where he is on loan.

EFL sources say that several ideas are being considered to reduce tensions over the issue. The numbers of players involved are significant — three years ago a survey found 156 Premier League players were out on loan, with 84 of these at EFL clubs.

Clubs can still arrange loans until the end of August, and so far 50 deals have been done for Premier League players — 23 to the Championship, 16 to League One and 11 to League Two.


Solanke, while at Chelsea, was sent on loan to VitesseGETTY IMAGES

Concerns about loan payments were raised at a meeting of League One and League Two chairmen with Shaun Harvey, the EFL’s chief executive. One of the proposals raised suggested that there should be a cap of £1,000 per week paid by League One clubs for a loan player or £500 for a League Two side. That proposal has not been taken up, but EFL chiefs are reviewing the situation.

Edin Rahic, the chairman of Bradford City, is not convinced that a cap would work but said that he would like to see the opportunity given to be a feeder club for top Premier League sides, as happens in his native Germany.

Rahic also believes there is an argument that League One and Two clubs should not have to pay anything towards loan players from the top flight.

He told The Times: “We provide game time and development opportunities to young players on loan from Premier League clubs so I don’t think we should even have to pay for them.

“That could, however, cause problems about how it is decided which club should receive the player on loan and it may then come down to informal relationships and be a grey area in terms of governance and transparency.

“I believe that feeder clubs should be allowed so that a Premier League club can have a formal relationship with teams lower down the league and use them to develop young players. This is a system that works well in other countries.”

Feeder clubs are not permitted in English football but the biggest Premier League clubs are now increasingly using teams based abroad to develop their players.

Chelsea has a relationship with Vitesse Arnhem, through which 23 players have gone on loan there since 2010. Manchester United have had a long relationship with Royal Antwerp in which Jonny Evans, Tom Heaton, Darron Gibson and Ryan Shawcross cut their teeth in Belgium while coming through the United ranks.

Manchester City have recently bought a stake in Girona, a Spanish top-flight club, and had four players there on loan last season.

 

The finamcial gap between the PL and the Championship is widening each year and even more so between the Championship and leagues 1&2.
Whats there to brag about there?
Lots of clubs now need wealthy owners just to keep going. Again whats to brag about there?

 

FFS get real. Wolves and Fulham have owners whose personal wealth is such that what they throw at the club won't touch the sides of their bank accounts. Leeds and Villa have absolutely huge supporter bases, both would get 40,000 regularly in the PL. They can afford to speculate. When are you going to realise that for all bar 30 years of our existence we've been in the bottom two leagues. That can only be changed by steady, organic growth as was proven when BFG threw money at it and very nearly killed us. He put us £35 million in debt and that was 20 years ago, in todays terms that would be £350 million.

 

You talk so much guff it's hard to take you serious.

By mentioning them clubs you've just proven his point about needing a ridiculously rich owner.

Fulham owner - Billionaire owns a NFL team and in the process of trying to by Wembley for about £800 million.

Wolves owner - Billionaire off the scale, owns half of China and only Man City and PSG owners have him beat financially.

Then you talk about Leeds and Villa, both huge clubs in comparison to not only us but the 2 teams above. Villa just got investment from 3 new billionaires and Leeds owned by a bloke who has multiple businesses including a huge TV streaming service which has taken all La Liga and the PGA Golf Major off of Sky!

We will never attract owners like these have for multiple reasons including location and the fact far bigger clubs are only a stones throw away.

Even with all that most owners in the PL don't spend their own money, Fulham have spent around £100 million this window, but TV rights alone are worth £180 million, do the maths.

Most clubs just spend what they earn as we would if we every got lucky enough to get there.

 

Message to Edin:

This is ENGLAND!

We're not in GERMANY!

Please start to understand the English game and leagues.

 

The Germany clubs are back by their government as well and they're all bloody feeder clubs to Munich.

It doesn't work in Germany.

Apart from 1 club in Germany the rest are poor.

In England all leagues are competitive.

Look, it's simple. If Edin likes the German way so much then sell up and buy a club in Germany.

 

I can see a model, before long, where promotion between the third and second tier - and possibly even from the premiership and championship is either locked down or reduced to a single club. The financial model isn't sustainable. Unless we win promotion and establish ourselves in the championship within the next couple of years then I think we could be forever adrift

 

We could be a feeder club for Macclesfield.

 

He doesn’t actually say that though does he

 

Completely agree. Even if it doesn’t happen formally, we’ll just see an ongoing cycle of a small number of clubs who bounce up and down the divisions. Teams like Wigan and Barnsley who come down with sides just not quite good enough for the championship but too good for league one. And with inflated budgets too. And several relatively high value playing assets on the books.

Look at the premiership. I struggle to name a single club who’s been promoted without significant financial backing to some degree. Even Huddersfield have benefitted from plenty of Dean Hoyle’s cash. Burnley perhaps? Although, they’ve had to yo-yo between the leagues and build resources through the parachute payments.

And to a lesser extent, our league. Even allowing for our pricIng model, a club of our size with 15-20k fans each home game, and the sponsorship and commericial benefits that brings, can’t afford anything more than a modest mid table budget, by all accounts. That’s absolute madness. Even at league one level, you need financial support from wealthy owners to have a reasonable shot at promotion.

It’s one of the reasons I’m losing a bit of interest in it all. Greed. And apathy, because it’s so hard to compete.

I have zero interest in the premiership now.

 

Good on Edin. Some people are always going to moan about anything he says. I don’t think he gets everything right, but I am happy he, along with other chairmen, have made these points. The bigger clubs just want everything their own way and will crap on anyone to get it. The top two divisions are almost a closed shop already. Barnsley will most probably wipe the floor with our division and then struggle again next year. Look at Wigan recently. Yes, occasionally teams will crack it, but the trend is a centralisation of power. Does make you think what the future may be for lower league clubs.

 

Rahic wants to dine at the big boys table but does a runner when the bill comes.

 

You haven't told the full story there. It is a reciprocal arrangement where the feeder club gets first tabs on loan players from the club they are linked to.

 

What have you got against considering ideas that work abroad here?.

 

That's bollocks!

Wolves & Fulham have both shown over the last month that you're talking out of your end.

If Villa or Leeds got promoted they would splash the cash also in the PL.

Edin can't afford to run Bradford City and that's his problem. It's sinking home to him now that English football is expensive.

 

When R&R arrived, I expected, or at least hoped that their approach would centre on supporting the successful model Parkinson had, but supplementing it with extra funding to allow for some sustainability and the addition of the couple of quality attacking players we lacked. Had they kept Parky and his team, allowed him to retain control and armed him with say an extra 1m in the playing budget each season, and set him the challenge of reaching the championship within 3 years, I'm confident he'd have delivered. There s never a guarantee, but I think it'd have been the surest route to progress in the short to mid term term. Once in the championship, they could've adapted their model more gradually. I still don't understanding why they didn't go down that route but hey ho.

Given that their approach looks to be more financially prudent then securing lower cost loans from the higher league's will be central to our chances of promotion. Establishing a relationship where we can demonstrate real development opportunity for loanees strengthens our hand in terms of seeking cheaper deals.

I still think the model is wrong. We're supposed to be about developing footballers, but we haven't appointed a coaching team with any track record in that regard. Our summer recruitment - whilst decent - looks to have a more short term focus. Why sign Payne, Scannell and Doyle but clearly leave yourself short of another quality forward?

And our approach to signing young players looks scattergun. Too broad and diluted. We'd be better scrapping the development team, signing fewer young players but increasing the talent profile and giving them immediate roles in the first team squad. If one or two can't get games, there's no shortage of local clubs in league's 2 and the conference for loans.