Brexit

We're talking about grassroots musicians here, not international stars. How ever you want to spin it, Brexit has made it immeasurably harder for grassroots European musicians to play here and for ours to tour Europe. Not so hard if you're a big star with a record company and multiple staff to sort out the interminable bureaucracy, but simply not feasible or cost effective for jobbing musos.

 

Such a minor issue it’s not even worthy of discussion. Literally anything to attack Brexit it’s quite embarrassing actually you really ought to move on.

 

It's not a minor issue at all. Unless you are a person who doesn't give a sh!t about the livelihood of musicians and the health of the British music industry. You are obviously a philistine who doesn't care about the health of the cultural life of this country. It's an issue that affects thousands of musicians with potentially very serious impacts on the future vibrancy of a very important part of the UK economy. It's basically an unnecessary and avoidable restraint of trade caused by Brexit. Just one of many negative impacts.

 

How does making it slightly more difficult for amateur musicians from overseas to come play here affect those things?

It's weird because when we sign deals with Australian farmers for example the non-stop remainers say that their products will undercut the local products.

When we restrict overseas performers coming here they say that it's bad for the economy to have overseas amateurs taking up spots that could demonstrate British artists instead.

We can't have it both ways.

But in general having amateur European musicians jump through a hoop to prove that's the genuine reason for travel isn't a big deal is it?

 

Who says that? It's not something I've heard. I know lots of musicians and I've never heard any of them complain about overseas musicians coming here. In my experience, most musicians valued the free two way flow of musical creativity we had before Brexit.

Who is talking about 'amateur musicians'. Huge numbers of musicians, here and abroad, have second day jobs simply because they can't earn enough to survive these days from gigging and/or recording. That doesn't make them amateurs.

And it's not just about incoming musicians from Europe. Touring Europe has become a logistical nightmare because of Brexit. As I said above, you can spin it any way you like, but Brexit has made the process of touring, for both British and continental musicians, immeasurably harder than it used to be. You may not think that's a big deal but, since I have lots of musician friends and acquaintances, I do.

 

Have you read the article?

 

Oh, and in general I agree Brexit has made it more difficult for touring artists but these are not barriers that are insurmountable. If you're a band that is going on a tour then you should already be familiar with needing to fulfil the paperwork, licensing, etc in different countries.

The difference now though is if we see these as being "poor legislation" we now have to power to change them whereas previously the obligations placed on non-EU bands were largely out of our control.

 

Prior to Brexit, bands didn't have to 'fulfill the paperwork, licencing etc in different countries'. They could tour across various continental countries without having new paperwork for each country and lots of different guarantors etc'. That's the point. You can argue that the EU is making it difficult but that's the big issue with Brexit. Prior to Brexit they didn't have that option, because of free movement. The bureaucracy has become so onerous that it's no longer cost effective for many musicians. I emphasise again, I'm not talking about major recording bands with record company backup; I'm talking about grassroots jobbing musos on the folk, bluegrass etc scene and young musicians learning to negotiate the music biz, at much greater difficulty than before.

 

Of course I have - I posted it.
The German band refused entry aren't 'amateurs'. They all have day jobs, like many musicians do, because it's tough trying to make a living wage from music these days. I've no doubt they'd go full time professional if they could.

 

Okay. So they do it as a side line rather than their main 'professional' job which to me is an amateur.

Same as if a lad gets paid to play Sunday League football it doesn't make them a pro footballer in my eyes. But I have no interest in getting into a discussion on definition.

Having some sort of rules that stop people claiming to be in a band to get a work visa when their actual work is in a different area is probably an important loophole to close.

 

I know they didn't. But people voted for the change.

People voted to end freedom of movement and that applies to musicians in the same way that it would do to plumbers or office workers. Why would it not?

 

haha you didnt just use that argument in all seriousness did you?

 

I'm not making an argument. Its an observation of what people are saying.

 

No, it's not a 'sideline'. Having a separate day job is not their main professional job, it's simply a necessary evil because making money solely from music is so difficult these days.

 

Who, apart from you, is saying that? I've never heard it.

 

Because we're not talking about people coming over here for months or years at an end, using British health services, renting British properties etc, which seems to be what upsets people. We're talking about people coming here for a few days at a time to play a few gigs. It's a total spurious comparison. And the price for removing continental musicians' freedom to play gigs here is that we've made it much harder for our own musicians to earn money by touring Europe. Everybody loses. It's stupid.

 

What do you mean

You literally said that restricting overseas performers was bad for the Economy here?

 

And that's fair. But it still makes them amateur in my eyes.

Not that it matters. The key point is that you need to have some rule to prevent people from getting a work visa because they play in a very, very spurious band and use that to get around the entry requirements.

Whether the current rules are right - who knows - but at least we could change them if they're "wrong"

 

Freedom of movement that people voted to abolish wasn't just about long term though. Short term visits were also going to be affected.

And I agree we've made it harder but ending Freedom of Movement was always going to do that so it's hardly new news or a shock is it?

 

It's still stupid