Brexit

But there wasnt meant to be any issues at all with brexit. The years it takes to build trade deals was never an argument being made by any brexiteer, not you, not anyone. Remainers knew it would take years and the benefits of those trade deals would be no greater than those we already have.

You're changing the goalposts, classic brexit lunacy.

 

The Brexit vote was never about building trade but always about immigration.

 

Isn't that what i posted.

 

Yup. Very few people, on either side, genuinely believed that it made economic sense to leave the free market, add extra layers of bureaucracy, tariffs etc. It was always about national identity, sovereignty, immigration etc. The idea that Brexit would be economically beneficial was a big fat whopper that even those telling it didn't really believe.

 

Are you being deliberately facetious?

By your reckoning its like asking a person to sell their house and be homeless for a few years because in a few years time you will be able to buy another house only slightly smaller.

 

Not at all, as I posted you've agreed with my original post : "They are the same poster who were quick to tell us how long trade deals take to complete then ask about the benefits".

 

Brexit was always going to be a long term project that would be better for the country eventually

 

It did.

And there's two reasons for that. The first is that we left and the second is that the EU have ridiculously complex and bureaucratic rules for third party countries. We are allowed to comment on the second part too and criticise where that is needless. It may come as a shock but the EU are not blessed by God and are not always right.

But this is the problem what we were told "house price crash, mass unemployment, pariahs of the world" hasn't actually happened. What has happened is a relatively slight blip in trade which everyone would have probably expected in the short term.

Roses are red aren't they?

 

Party true.

Completely agree it was never about economics.

But it was about control - and immigration was the best example of this. Who decides which people can be let into the country was an obvious line in the sand about who gets to determine the rules for the country. It isn't the only element of control but it is the most obvious to people.

The funny thing is that the EU believes in "free movement of people" no more than the "UK" does. Its just a case of whose borders you choose and who sets them.

 

And coming to the UK was always the preferred choice for some EU citizens if not why did Cameron beg the EU for a better deal with regards EU citizens coming to the UK.
Even during the build up to the referendum many leave voters we quite happy to have people coming to work in the UK as you say "Its just a case of whose borders you choose and who sets them".

 

The reason that Remainers are asking about the 'benefits' is because we were told that our predictions of economic difficulties were nothing but 'project fear' nonsense. We were told that our predictions of years or decades to complete trade deals, that would be less good than what we already had, were nonsense.

No one on the Brexit side said that within two years of Brexit we'd have the worst economic growth and the highest inflation of any major economy. No one said we'd have the biggest erosion of living standards in living memory. No one said that restricting European economic migration would cause acute and chronic labour shortages across huge swathes of the economy, including the NHS. No one said that small businesses would be staggering under the weight of increased import/export bureaucracy. No one said that the democratic system in Northern Ireland would be thrown into chaos because of the border down the North sea that Johnson negotiated, despite denying he would ever do such a thing.

Remainers would just like to know how many years, or decades, we can expect to wait before the benefits of Brexit actually happen. Assuming they ever do.

 

Great that you've managed to delete the pandemic from happening....

 

Really? So how come most EU countries accept far more refugees and asylum seekers than the UK, and have done for many years.

 

The pandemic affected every country. Yet our economy is performing much worse than most of them. Wonder why?

 

Because the edge of the EU borders countries who let them through and then once they're in the EU they can move freely around due to lack of internal borders. That's relatively obvious.

But that's not really an example of free movement anyway, it's just geography.

You still can't move from India or Australia straight into the EU. They still restrict "freedom of movement" its just that they decide and control who is inside and who is outside?

 

Maybe true but the differences between the countries are not vast. They're certainly not the catastrophic collapse that was presented.

If someone had said we'd have inflation 0.4 above the USA or the whole EU area nobody would have even cared.

 

As John Maynard Keynes said, 'In the long run we are all dead'.
Brexit was not sold to the British people on the basis that it would take decades for any improvement to occur.

 

I agree but also take in to account one of the most incompetent governments in modern history. No matter in or out of the EU the result would be the same with this lot

 

I disagree with you over Brexit. And slightly, over the government. They are the most incompetent government in modern history.

 

I believe you were one of posters quoting during earlier posts on this threads with regards making deals it took the EU 20+ years to get some deals done which is not surprising when you have to make 27 member happy with the deal.
We have been out of the EU officially since 31 January 2020, as Tony points out we've had 18months fighting Covid then when we looked to be one of the first countries coming out of the pan-dermic and our economy starting to pick up Putin decides to invade the Ukraine which has caused major world wide problems with regard oil and food supplies surely you can't blame brexit for the present situation the world presently finds itself in, similar to the subprime situation when many blamed the then Labour government for what most accepted was a world banking crisis.

With regards the Irish border I was under the impression it was a negotiable part of the agreement if it wasn't working, but the EU once again are showing they don't like negotiating they prefer telling countries what they should be doing hence the threat by the UK government to pass legislation to bypass the bad deal, negotiation is not a big thing with the EU, even the bureaucrats who run it aren't elected, a comment Jeremy Corbyn was more than happy to tell us during his back bench days.
Now we see Sir Keir saying if and when the Labour party get into power they would do a better job of negotiating with the EU, this is the party that did all it could to drag out the referendum result 4 years with the help of the Greens, Lib/Dem and others.
I would have thought if Sir Keir and the Labour party still believe leaving was a bad choice made by the UK electorate why not base their next General Election manifesto on rejoining the EU making it their main policy then there can be no doubts where Labour stand on the situation, unlike the last General Election with their "we'll renegotiate a deal with the EU then tell the Labour voters to vote against that renegotiated deal ", quoting the Labour party believe leaving the EU was the wrong choice by the UK electorate so we will give the British electorate a choice vote Labour and we will rejoin the EU.