Most liked posts in thread: Boris and Trump

If the electorate had been treat like adults from the start none of this would have happened as you say. As tony's just proved above so well, if you treat people like children long enough eventually they'll act like children. I spoiled my ballot as I thought the politicians on both sides didn't give the people enough honest information to make an informed choice.

 

The information was there if you looked, cost us taxpayers around £9,000,000 if I remember....

 

Yeah and it was still inaccurate you fecking doughnut. Both sides lied through their teeth to the point I didn't trust anything any side said and therefore didn't feel I had the right information to make a choice. If you think Bozza and his mates are fountains of truth you're a minority view. The British people were given a choice between Project Fear or Project Bullshit, which is no way to decide the most important and complex constitutional issue in our lifetime.

 

And reckoning to know all that at the time you went and spoilt your ballot paper, whose the 'doughnut' now...?

 

I knew enough to know I couldn't make a proper choice so I would say still you mate

 

pot kettle assumptions. We as a country need to have a long look at ourselves about how the entire debate has been handled. Polarised, partisan and childish and frankly it's been embarrassing to call myself British in the face of it all.

 

Tony Blair is derided by the Left and Corbyn lovers but the fact is he did more for the poor and working classes than any left wing politician has ever done,
The Trade unions hate him because when he brought in the minimum wage it gave trade unionist workers the biggest increase in wages that the trade unions would have taken years to achieve, Unionism is about protectionism of its own existence and when workers realised they would get better increases from the government than the union then they left in droves.

 

The remainers realising we have a Leader in Boris that will take us out in October are now panicking, expect dire warnings from them now on including the end of the world, The pound is down, it is not all brexit no matter what the remainers say, It was at this level in 2012 well before brexit, It will recover and become strong as the banks and currency investors take their profits and move on,

 

I can agree with much of this, certainly with regards utilities being in private ownership and the railways.
The Labour party have plenty of problems they need to sort before I could vote Labour again the leader being the biggest he carries to much baggage.
They are now an official Remain party or they were the last time James McDonnell spoke on the Petson show another reason I can't support them.

 

Can you explain your rationale for why the pound will recover?

How will that benefit our trade if our exports become more expensive and then have tariffs layered on top?

 

History shows the pound always recovers, Its price is determined by the international currency speculators and the banks, In 2012 the doom mongers said the £ was a doomed currency, 12 months later it was as strong as ever,
Trade is Trade and will always take place despite the efforts of politicians to muck it up,
BTW most large companies that import and export buy the currency at an average price well in advance to even out currency fluctuations,

 

The left derides him because he considered himself an extension of Thatcher which is rightly or wrongly anathema to a lot of us on the left. And also because between them, him and Brown pursued a policy of deregulation of the banking sector which led to the financial crisis in part as we were subsequently overexposed to US junk mortgage bonds.And the Iraq War. Then the bit where he became a Middle East peace envoy. Blair did a lot of good with the minimum wage and things of that nature but we dislike him for a reason. His legacy in the party is also people who have briefed against Corbyn on a daily basis to the press for four years, despite the blairite wing of the party fielding some of the worst candidates I could have imagined (Angela Eagle or Owen Smith, come off it lol). I would also say thats an incorrect statement given the NHS was the creation of a Labour Government which has arguably been equally if not more beneficial.

Unions nowadays are a shadow of what they were, I've worked on the bottom rung of the ladder in places with a good union and places where a union is just a pipe dream (try 12 hour shifts 6 days a week with a 30 minute break only all day) and I was treat miles better at the places with a good union without fail. We can't continue to allow union mistakes of yesteryear (scargill etc) to undermine the case for the power of collective bargaining, as the pendulum has very much swung the other way now.

 

I did my own research, looked at what was being said to me and frankly realised that reducing the most complex constitutional issue of our time to a binary yes or no question would inevitably end badly and was a deliberate fudge on the part of the powers that be. If you couldn't see that I suggest you spoil your ballot at the next election in penance.

Look at ALL of the crap that is happening now. 'wah wah leavers lied' 'wah wah remainers lied' 'a vote for leave is a vote for no deal' 'no ifs no buts just OUT' despite that never ever ever being the question in the first place. had the electorate done what I did and called the choice for the bullshit misleading choice that it was, we might all be less divided now. Why should I choose between two options I believe to be inadequate when even after my own research they are still inadequate? That to me is just as valid a choice.

edit - read some of my other posts on politics, do i sound like the type of person that doesnt spend time reading into this stuff off my own back?

 

Nope, came equally from both sides. Someone above just implied I was a communist for having left wing views when discussing this exact issue, so Remain in no way has a monopoly on people being nobheads. What about the bit where remainers were called traitors and enemies of the people? How would you like it to have 3 years of your patriotism being questioned because you disagree with someone?

My point being, the quality of debate on both sides has been an utter disgrace and to try blame one side only is just plain wrong.

 

I never argued that Blair didn't do a lot of good so that nice list was a waste of time Trev. And to say Brown was further to the left is ridiculous given he pursued deregulation of the financial sector alongside blair. Someone further to the left of them wouldn't dare deregulate an industry to the extent they did. Take it from someone who is moderately further to the left than them for real, it just wouldn't happen.

The terrorist thing is what gets me. The tories cosy up to the Saudis for example, who then subsequently fund people like Isis and Al Qaeda who then bomb the shit out of us, being of the same highly repressive form of Islam. Yet they seem to get a free pass on that. There was also Thatcher's support of Pinochet against a democratically elected government of the time, simply because the Tories and the US didn't like their politics. The point I'm getting at is calling Corbyn a terrorist sympathiser is a completely moot point because if you look deep enough they all are.

 

Illegal? when was that made official ? show me any court decision, That view is only in the mind of those that opposed it in a bizzare judgement,
Half a million dead? It is estimated that Saddam was killing between half and one million of his own citizens every year and we now have a country changed from a terrorist country in to a stable one that has for the first time in its history had free and fair elections so Blair in fact SAVED millions of lives,
What he earns is what he is worth to the person paying it and they judge his value in millions, No one forces them to pay it, Same as Corbyn who it has turned out is taking secret payments and will the same be paid millions, I am sure your talents are valued in the same way
BTW while the EU and United Nations were holding meeting after meeting to decide what to do Blair sent our forces in to Sierra Leone and the Balkans and saved hundreds of thousands of innocent people threatened with extinction and genocide, The truth as much as you do not like it is that millions of people survived who would have been murdered due to the intervention of Tony Blair

 

Its not the planet, You need to open your eyes and take the blinkers off your mind and see the world as it really is

 

What about the rise in hate crime? Or the fact right wing extremists are now a greater threat than radical islamic terrorism? it must hurt a lot to be called racist but because of some of the rhetoric of those involved with Leave certain sections of our society are now living in fear. As I said, equal on both sides.

 

Trevor if you think Iraq is now a beacon of democracy, in the words of your mate Trump get yourself off and go live there. You;d soon be back. The govt is a shill, they have suicide bombings on the regular and is full of PMCs shooting the feck out of civilians because they aren't bound by the geneva convention in the same way as conventional military forces. Blair took us to war on a lie, if you're ok with our troops dying for a falsehood then its not the left that hates the military. Saddam was a very very nasty man, but one thing folks from Iraq say is he kept the nutcase extremists under control and look what we have now.

To conflate Iraq with Sierra Leone and the Balkans is just daft Trevor, totally different contexts and in the Balkans and Sierra Leone, we had actual evidence of what was going on and Tony didn't need to lie to anyone. Interestingly, Corbyn is on record as saying he would prosecute Blair for war crimes should he get into power, which adds a bit of context as to why he gets hate from that wing of the party.