Liverpool fans...

Based on my experience following England at multiple tournaments, UEFA events are comfortably the most difficult in terms of organisation out of any ticketed event I've attended in my life. Had a similar experience to what appears to have happened in Paris on Saturday when in Guimaraes for the Nations League a few years ago. Fans turned up in good time and were met with many gates closed and long queues. Multiple factors were at play including a failure with UEFA's ticketing system and a panicked police force. Can comfortably say that it was the most scary experience I've had in a crowd, through no fault of the crowd itself. After all, what else can you do apart from turn up well before kick off and try scan your ticket?

At the time we put it down to UEFA choosing an old style stadium to host its first high profile match for a long time. But the Stade de France is a modern facility that has hosted multiple events successfully and similar problems have emerged. The Mail on Sunday's Rob Draper wrote a detailed Twitter thread covering his experience entering the Stade de France on Saturday and it sounded similar to my experience in Guimaraes but on a much larger scale. I'd recommend Draper's thread as it clearly outlines the bizarre crowd control decisions that were made including gates being closed and kettling.

It is naive to solely blame supporters when there are so many things at play. Each case is different of course, but when the accounts of multiple sources sit so closely with what I've experienced at UEFA events in the past, it seems clear that the vast proportion of responsibility in this case sits with the organisation of the event.

 

An interesting perspective which provokes thought from outside the box, thanks.

 

I believe the Euro Cup final was also a shambles.

 

Likely a combination of factors. Poor organisation, large volumes of fans without tickets or with fakes, an overall excess of expected fans trying to get in etc.

Reports and footage of tear gas being used is obviously unpleasant, and I have no idea of whether it was needed. But there's a genuine question as to whether the police tactics, however unpalatable and unpleasant, were a reason why no one was seriously hurt or killed. It may have been excessive and indiscriminate, or it may have been a legitimate means of dispersing the crowd to prevent a more serious incident.

 

Gerald Darmanin the French Interior Minister has said that 70% of the tickets presented by LFC fans were fake which is obviously a load of rubbish. Even if it were true that fraudsters managed to sell more fake tickets to Liverpool fans than UEFA managed to sell genuine tickets to Liverpool and Real fans combined, it's monumental ineptitude from the authorities that they didn't spot 30-40,000 fake tickets being sold on Viagogo over the last few weeks and realise that there was going to be a problem well in advance.

 

Is it UEFA's responsibility to monitor for the transacting of fake tickets? I honestly don't know.

There was clearly a very different experience when you compare the Madrid and Liverpool ends. There needs to be a full inquiry. If anything like 70% of tickets presented were fake, then there'll surely be evidence of that.

 

I attended the super cup final in tallinn some years ago. Also England games here. You’ve got to be an official member of the club, enter passport details and so on. They’ve done this to prevent touts selling tickets for inflated prices, and fake tickets. Absolute clear message if your ID doesn’t match the name on the ticket, you won’t get in, So how come that didn’t work on Saturday?

 

Moral of the story, is when will we learn especially after Hillsborough. Be very careful of jumping to initial conclusions until you understand the context of the videos you are seeing. The French government are doubling down on their excuses today even though plenty of neutral observers contradict them. General consensus seems to be that it was very badly organised, with hyper aggressive policing.

 

The area they were in, jumping the fence, could only be accessed after going through initial checks on tickets

 

A ticket which may have cost £1000's

 

That's got zero to do with this situation and was nearly 40 years ago. If you read the reports on Heysel, it's very surprising that UEFA and the ground owners came out of it scot free. The punishment was due to the deaths and nationalities of those people and not necessarily completely due to each parties actions

 

the same mass gathering as previous Champions League finals. There were more English people in Madrid but the handling was better. Therefore you ask if you have a number of similar scenarios, what is the difference. French authorities

 

A vital skill I suggest you learn in life, else you will be consistently taken advantage of, is to always consider the source and the motivation of that source to say what they are saying. The first line should raise a big red flag in your head (not a Liverpool one). What would motivate French authorities to make a statement like that?

 

And those final have also had Liverpool there. therefore ask yourself what was majorly different this year. The first Real Madrid final was far more special to someone from Liverpool and attracted a lot of fans. In reality UEFA probably cocked up by choosing Paris in the first place.

 

BBC News - Champions League final: Fan videos of crowding and pepper spray
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61640126

 

This is exactly what happened in Madrid at I think it was their previous final against Spurs. A former work colleague of mine had a genuine ticket and was kicked out by security upon showing his ticket, so with Liverpool there definitely is previous of duplicate tickets. Unfortunately innocent people are usually the ones who lose out in these situations.

 

exactly so if they were in that area they must have had tickets

 

TCA a bit quiet? You haven't posted in the go mper thread for a while now I see.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/champions-league-final-uefa-order-independent-review-into-events-surrounding-game-between-liverpool-and-real-madrid-12624454

Independent review will take place.