Brexit

Can't wait for Judith Cummings to come knocking on my door for my support for her, I'll remind her of the promise her and her colleagues gave at the 2017 General Election with regards honouring the result of the referendum, and have done their best to make sure it doesn't happen.

 

These are not 'excuses', they are tactical considerations. Every party tries to manipulate conditions to maximise their chances.
Labour has put a lot of work into getting students students to register to vote with their university addresses. Most students vote Labour. Its easy to get the student vote out because they are all concentrated in specific areas. Of course Labour doesn't want an election when all of those students are at their parents' homes and would have to organise postal votes. There are several key target constituencies (including Boris Johnson's) that Labour could potentially take from the Tories if they can get a big student vote out. They'd be mad to agree a GE during student holidays. Issues like the weather and Christmas are also genuine tactical considerations.

 

1. If the Labour policy is to renegotiate a credible leave option and put it in a referendum with remain (Their policy) they how would waiting till the Spring work? The French are kicking off about a delay to January, nevermind a possible delay to the middle of next year. The weather excuse can be bypassed with postal voting and people can post their vote with their letter to santa.

2. Labour maybe behind in the polls but the last election they were so far behind they were out of sight. Polls for the referendum and the last election were wrong so although they are behind I would be surprised this would scare them off. Everyone knew a GE was potentially coming and their conference said they were ready for a campaign, which I think they are.

3. The reason for a General Election is because Brexit will just drag on and on and on due to the amount of MPs who oppose it no matter what it says. This will not go away and it is not likely to be settled.

The main reason I see is this, There are 140 Labour MPs in leave voting seats who have constantly looked to delay, stall or reverse the first referendum vote and they are simply looking after their own position. The Lib Dems and SNP have been honest in their blocking of Brexit, Labour stand on a policy that can only be delivered if they are in power, but they won't accept the election to put their policy into practice.

 

That's fine Dave. You'll just vote in the most right wing government we've ever seen - one that will make Thatcher and Tebbit look like wet liberals. And it'll be worth it to stop a few foreigners and get our 'sovereignty' back. That is, until they've sold off our NHS and what's left of our public services and put us into dire economic straights for years to come.

 

Right wing....? you're 'avin a laugh.....to use your favourite response..."that's bollocks"...you're a proper little scaremongerer aren't you..?

 

1. Postal voting is a hassle that is mostly done by committed, experienced voters who know how they'll vote. Labour needs undecided voters, new voters ,student voters in spades to have any chance of winning. Having an election in weather that will put off many uncommitted voters from going out to vote, will seriously hamper canvassing, and will require people to be bothered to postal vote, is massively not in Labour's interests.
Obviously if the EU only grants a short extension then waiting until the spring won't work. Labour clearly needs a longer extension if possible, to facilitate a Spring election.

2. Yes, they are ready for a GE campaign. But they don't have the media support that the Tories have. They will mount a massive boots on the ground campaign, carefully targeted at winnable seats. Having bad winter weather is a disincentive for their mass membership to get out and campaign. They need as much going for them as possible.

3. Yes, everyone wants Brexit settled. But if you think Brexit is a good idea then you are more likely to want it settled quickly and at any cost. Most Labour MPs and members think Brexit is a terrible idea which will cause massive economic and social damage to our country. There is a split between those who want a second referendum and those who want a deal - but a much better deal than the one that Johnson has brought back. Either way, most believe that a few months more delay, to get a better deal or a referendum, is infinitely preferable to agreeing Johnson's terrible deal or a Halloween crash out. Further delay is not popular in the country but it's seen as the lesser of two evils.

 

Raab, Patel, Rees-Mogg, Cummins, the ERG. These people are well to the right of Thatcher and are on record as (eg) wanting to scrap most employment protections and replace the NHS with a fully privatised healthcare system. That's not scaremongering, it's fact.
Someone who sees communist conspiracies in his sleep calling me a scaremonger - that's genuinely funny.

 

By my standards? My standards are to tell the truth and shame the devil taking a fair unbiased approach where possible, Corbyns history supporting terrorist groups is his own doing nothing to do with me twisting anything.
There is no argument that Hamas want the destruction of Israel, Corbyn has supported and associated himself with them for years calling them his friends and accepting visits to Palestine paid for by Interpal who are associates of Hamas it is public knowledge, He could of course publicly disassociate himself from them but fails to do so. Notice he never calls for new elections in Palestine to support democracy despite it been nearly 14 years since the last one and the destruction of any other parties in Gaza by Hamas,
You accuse me of making things up but provide no counter argument or evidence as I have done consistently in my posts only insults typical of how the biased and brainwashed left work,
Read the articles in my post #2049trevor, Read the articles of his devotion to the Palestine cause and support for Hamas, Hezebollah ( And the IRA ) and his refusal to support his own Jewish members who are leaving his party because of his dislike of them

 

The sounds coming out of the EU are not ones that suggest that more time will be granted, it looks like a compromise is being given just to take it to January. It wouldn't surprise me if the EU say you can have until January on the basis you are going to have a General Election and they will allow that to run it's course.

There is no way any renegotiation will take place for a new deal in 3 months, and there is no way the current parliament will implement Johnson's deal, so the thing that the opposition look to avoid could well become the only option come the end of January unless they revoke Article 50.

 

No one is disputing that Corbyn has had meetings and dialogue with Hamas and Hezbollah. And whether or not that was wise is a matter of political judgement. But the cause of a Palestinian homeland is a just cause. It's possible to accept the right for Israel to exist and support a Palestinian homeland.
To suggest that because Corbyn has had those contacts it means that he therefore supports the destruction of the state of Israel is utter fantasy. As @Hoochy-Min said above, he's a bit of an idealist who wants to talk to everyone, and in my view he often has a very poor grasp of how such contacts are perceived.
Saying that Corbyn talking to Palestinian groups means he supports the destruction of Israel is like saying that anyone who believes in a united Ireland therefore supported IRA bombing.

 

Sure. If the EU only grant an extension until January then a winter GE becomes more likely. There's a game of chicken going on at the moment. Both Labour and Johnson are waiting to see what the EU give before deciding their next move, while the EU wants parliament to set a plan before deciding on the length of the extension. Who blinks first?

 

He wants to talk to everyone? When did he talk to the Israelis or go to Israel to promote peace and a deal? He talks only to the groups and people he supports
When did he talk to the other side when attending IRA conferences and meeting the leaders of the terrorists knowing they had killed innocent people and the country's armed forces?

He openly supports Hamas, Hamas want the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews in Arab lands, By your friends will you be judged is a common truism despite the repeated attempts to whitewash him now he is leader, His past will always be with him, If anyone is twisting things and making things up to support a view it is you,

 

Like most right thinking people, she will be holding out for a 'good' deal that won't disadvantage people like you and me and that won't reward rich and greedy investors like Rees Mogg (who was today described as the 'idiots thinking man') who are speculating to make money on a 'no deal' scenario.

 

So now we have another angle. The EU has delayed it's decision on the extension until it knows if a general election will take place.

This makes it sound like France has got it's way who were pushing for a small extension to mid November, but they would it seems be willing to allow until January to allow for an election which is why we have no decision from them.

Any talk of a Spring election is pure fantasy so it's either, Johnson's deal, No deal or a General election. I would take the GE option least of all because it would grant more time.

 

Just imagine a situation back in 2016 our negotiators go to Brussels with a clean sheet and ask the EU what's required to leave the EU, they make an offer which is not acceptable to the UKs negotiators, so further discussions are had but to no avail, once more they try to get a more acceptable deal for the UK but the EU negotiators say we're not moving that's the deal on offer.
Parliament listen to the deal on offer and vote it down, the UK negotiators then say if that's the final offer we will leave with no deal and as you say we play chicken....................only problem is the UK negotiators no longer have their ace up their sleeve, and people wonder why we're no nearer leaving, once the no deal was taken from the table the EU were laughing at us, and many round the world wondered what has happend to a once proud nation who dance to whatever tune the EU play.

 

Any point in replying ?.

She is holding out for a "good" deal you say, stop kidding yourselves the only good deal the Labour party would consider is a deal that revokes Article 50, or a deal that is so watered down it could not be classed as brexit by the 17.4 million who voted leave.

 

I cant honestly believe you leavers and your downright hypocrisy and partisan methods.

Here we have a parliament who voted for Boris' deal to get a second reading. Yet because they didnt fast track it Boris is threatening to pull that deal unless there is a GE. Labour then say no because they want time to scrutinise the deal and you blame them for the mess. Boris can find 6 weeks for an election but insists only 3 days were available to evaluate if his deal was good or not. Listen to yourselves!

Boris is pulling his own brexit deal because he doesnt want it to be scrutinised. Is using the GE as an excuse to put blame onto labour because he knows they wont accept it. And you lot just gobble it all up without any question, your cult like tendencies laid bare.

Come on! open your eyes FFS. Hes pulling brexit from under you and blaming it on labour. I dont even vote labour so i couldnt care if they lost votes. Its just obvious he has contempt for you leavers and remainers.

Heres a quote from someone who voted for his bill...

“I worry that the public will look at the government and say, ‘Why on earth are they farting about and trying to ruin my Christmas with an election when they have just won a vote on the Brexit bill? Where have they found these six weeks for an election when they don’t have time to discuss Brexit legislation?’

“The miscalculation here is that the PM might be popular, but he is not trusted. And this manoeuvre, if the public don’t buy it as genuine, might reinforce the impression that he is sneaky, untrustworthy and too clever by half.”

 

Sent to me by a friend in Germany - it really is an embarrassing situation.
Merry UK Extension Day - it’s the new Hallmark holiday.

 

Problem is Den we don't trust any of them.