Brexit

The Uk is definitely a mess.
Brexit is going no where
Folks are loosing jobs
Firms are loosing money and have no idea how to progress
The UK will be great again
Possibly, once you have reached ground zero first
and 'if' there is owt left

The MPs agree on Brexit as much and City fans agree on BC football club

You folks voted the MPs in
You folk pay their wages
You folk are the bosses
Why talk of what can/cannot be done
Think and rebel
Party loyalty is out of the window
If, as seems likely, there is a GE, let them know
Its your UK

 

Just what is Corbyn's deal, not sure he knows.

 

Doesn't have a deal, but he has one aim and that is to wreck the country that we love and he hates....(yep, that about covers it)..

 

After 4 emails to Judith Cummings my MP, I'm hoping she does not come knocking on my door for my support.

 

This is all true. But it doesn’t speak to my central criticism of referenda.

They are certainly, in a closed system, democratic. I’m not doubting that. But within our parliamentary democracy there’s little limit to the usage of the word democratic.

What would be undemocratic about a party being elected on a ticket including a new referendum, or revoke entirely?

Surely if the will of the people has changed, it would be undemocratic not to have a new referendum? If it hasn’t, crack on by all means.

When exactly can we have another referendum? 1 year, 5 years, 20, 100? As I say, if a party gets elected on a particular ticket, that ticket then has a mandate. But mandates are only as good as the last democratic exercise.

The whole ‘this is the only chance to vote’ was palpably undemocratic. That was the Conservative party binding the hands of a future government. You can’t say that, and they were 100% wrong to have said it.

As to my personal view of whether we have another referendum, I’m undecided. I do think it’s only fair to ‘undo’ a referendum with another referendum. But also respect that people have voted one way, and that should be respected - despite my reservations about offering the initial referendum. It’s hardly the fault of the people that voted in it.

 

Another good post @Dionysus, just a couple of points IMO even if Boris and the negotiating team return with a better deal, lets say the EU accept dropping the back stop, (because the EU have made it clear if there was a no deal they would not have a hard boarder between the North and South of Ireland), that to most voters would be the deal breaker I don't believe for one minute Corbyn and the Labour party would acceptable such a deal.

Labour have made it quite clear they want closer links with the EU and that would be giving less involvement.

I think most people now realise when Cameron offered the referendum they did not make any plans for a brexit because they were so *@?$ sure the great unwashed would not dare to vote leave.

Yet we hear the remainer's in many cases say "you leavers didn't have a plan going forward" of course they didn't the vote should have gone to plan after Cameron, Osborne,etc, tried to frighten the life out of us with their claims that Osborne would have to call an emergency budget and raise tax's, the pound would crash, we would enter recession, and 1,000 would be out of work the following day after the referendum result was announced.

At the moment I can't see an ending to the turmoil as Labour have to back any new deal and that ain't gonna happen, the only answer to me is a general Election with all parties stating exactly what their stance is on leaving the EU linked with their other Election winning promises.

 

I appreciate your reply especially on the democratic use of referendum as a method of judging the decision of the electorate, Of course one could argue that a general election is a form of referendum on the choice of government, Of course as far as mandates from prospective parties and MPs is concerned and the fact they can put the choice to the people to enact a policy you fail to mention that the vast majority of MPs were elected after promising to enact leaving the EU in the last election with both Labour and Conservative having it as a major part of the promise in their manifestos they were elected on then reneged on that promise when elected and if true to democracy should have resigned to give the electorate a choice to support that change from leave to Remain.
As for the frequency of any referendum that is easy, When a proposal for a referendum on any subject is proposed by a party in parliament and then voted on and won by a majority then a referendum will take place. If it is lost in a vote it will not take place . Time is only material on behalf of the proposer of any referendum as a judgement as if they are likely to win such a vote.

Your comment that one parliament cannot bind a future parliament is simply wrong, It does not apply to international treaties freely entered in to by a government these agreements are enduring without a major consequence,
It only applies to local UK policies which are changeable by an act of parliament without international input that a treaty change would need,
I do agree we not only need a general election but deserve one after the disgraceful actions of the current members of parliament on all sides

 

Bollocks to it and just go fishing.

 

Congratulations. You win right wing caricature of the year award.
Why would Corbyn want to wreck the country he's lived in all his life? What evidence have you that he hates the UK? What exactly is it that you think he wants to do that is so malevolent?
I ask this as someone who has significant doubts about him as a competent leader but I can see no evidence whatsoever for your claims. Most of his policies are basic Keynesian economics as followed by Harold Macmillan and Ted Heath.

 

Do you know what, i want Corbyn in right now. I want to see whether this f*cker can sink or swim. Call a general election now if thats what it takes. I'm with @Skyebantam on this, i'm sick to the back teeth of all this shite. I want Commie Corbyn in right now, sat there giving it the biggun at his party conference, well lets see if he can talk the talk and take money off the 'rich' and give it to the poor. Cos thats what it all boils down to, all these things he's gonna do, free prescriptions, better benefits, renationalisation etc, all seem like good ideas but all need paying for.

 

Corbyn’s going to get hammered in any GE. Boris has done his ‘man of the people act’, to a tee over all this. And plenty will lap it up. I’d rather we stay in the EU, but a leaving deal would be palatable to make sure the ref result is followed. Any negative effects on the UK and union of a deal / or no deal, if it happens, is for the leave voters and MPs to reconcile.

But yes, pretty sick of it now.

 

Johnson saying do it for Jo Cox takes the mickey as she was killed by a right wing nutter

 

Simply 'cos he sings the red flag, carries a white flag and hates the union flag...
Hates our friends, loves our enemies......any more..?

 

Corbin would recognise Keynesian economic if it smashed him in his rotting teeth ? Hes no education beyond A Level which he failed. Hes a fake whos socialist speeches are written for him by a bunch of Left wing zealots. Even his own party dont trust in him enough to fight

Your right Jo Cox MP waa killed by a complete nutter but to put the scummer up as a "flag bearer' for supposed right wing ideology gives him oxygen he doesnt deserve. Hes no more idea about political ideology than "soft mick". The geeza is a complete nut job and should be hung for what he did. But putting forward the idea that Jo Cox MP was slaughtered due to rught wimg ideology is incorrrct. Lee Rigby was slaughtered because of ideology that we know exists in the very streets we walk through here everday ! Its in plain sight. I dont see Far Right extremists walking the streets of Bradford but I see Islamist extremists out everywhere. I agree with Boris who was absolutely excellent last night in Parliament. The best way we can honour the late Jo Cox MP is to make sure that the will of the people is enacted and we get Brexit done. As far as I can gather Jo Cox wanted to end division and suspision and unite. She was certainly against the Far Right; Far Left and other extremist agendas. To try and martyr her and make out that she died at the hands of Far Right ideology has always been a divisive trick by those that would. Jo Cox was murdered by a stark starring lunatic who is rightly behind bars. So yes lets get Brexit done.

 

There are far right extremists walking the streets.

A young man had the living shit kicked out of him for being non-white, just 500 metres from where I live last month. An acquaintance of mine stepped in, the same happened to him and he spent time in hospital. This is documented in local press in Manchester. There are plenty of far-right extremists prepared to use violence if they can get away with it. Whether the murderer of Jo Cox had issues or not, he used the words Britain First so there was a degree of correlation with far right ideology. He chose an MP that he disagreed with to commit a terrible act.

The points being made last night is that the country is very divided and some of the language being used by the PM is chosen very carefully. It is chosen to heighten division for the purpose of his own political career. The vitriol on Twitter is clear evidence of this.

Female politicians routinely receive death and rape threats. They receive credible threats to their families. By dismissing as ‘humbug’ the requests, from a female politician, to tone down the language used was contemptible. Just a few words to acknowledge this situation would have shown him to be a compassionate and decent human being, albeit one whose politics I disagree with.

 

What utter nonsense. Islamic extremists are pursuing an ideology. But far right, neo Nazi, white supremacists who kill people are just individual loonies pursuing their own mad agenda. Very logical.
How do you know who is an 'Islamic extremist' just by looking at them in the street? Wearing traditional dress doesn't equate to following jihadi ideology. How do know that any of the normal looking white people you see aren't harbouring extreme right wing ideological thoughts?
The police have just reported that the fastest growth area in UK terrorist activity is from far right extremist groups. Did you miss that?

 

Society as a whole seems to be very aggressive and violent these days, not something i use to associate with our particular country. Quite sad but also a worrying trend.

 

None of which answers my questions. Yet more empty statements. Why do you assume that anyone who holds left of centre views hates this vountry.?

 

WINNER

 

I agree.

It seems the art of dialogue and proper debate has been lost and everything is us and them. Worrying times.