Brexit

Agreed, the set-up and structure has since changed, but it hasn't changed so much (despite what some claim and will claim) that it is an entirely different construct - it has simply evolved. That being said, leavers claim people knew exactly what they were voting for in 2016, why is that not the case for the 1975 - or are facts being changed to fit the rhetoric?

Also, can you provide a credible source for the 70% of laws you refer to? I'll accept and discuss it if you are able to provide one.

 

"it has simply evolved" now there's an understatement, and it will keep on evolving under the Lisbon Treaty.
EU members will have to take the Euro as their currency, they want a European Army, but most of all they want to take more power to make laws for Sovereign countries, and the 52% voting leave should not involve the UK being involved with these ideologies going forward.

 

Most was not borrowed. Revenues for that period were about £810 bn, although of course some of the expenditure was interest on our accumulated debt.

We can argue about the efficacy of the EU payment, but it is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Ceasing that payment is not going to make a positive material difference to people's lives, despite the propaganda of the leave campaign.

It's a bit like cancelling your gym membership to save £30 a month, when you are spending £3000, and then wondering why your fitness drops off.

 

The fact you do not understand the staggering difference between the common market for goods and trade and a complete political union and ceding of sovereignty to the EU who can change UK law shows it is a waste debating, It is as if the treaties of Rome and Maestricht and the legal obligations has passed you by unnoticed

 

Of course, the irony of no deal is to immediately give more powers to Theresa May! Or Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn.

Are you really really sure you want to leave!!

 

A second referendum would carry no weight to whoever won it, too many people would abstain, first referendum being ignored has rendered our democracy dying if not already dead...

 

Of course the difference is we can directly affect what they do and un-elect them, Not so easy with our EU masters in Junker and Tusk and the unelected Commission who are now proposing that the EU forms its own army and responsibility for defence
and now have a plan under discussion to take over the tax rates for the EU countries direct

 

Fair point, I would baulk at the idea of tax rates being determined at EU level, although I doubt that will ever happen. Similarly, I'm glad that we stayed out of the Euro and would not support any membership which required that.

With regard to the European Army, I don't know enough to view that as either a good or bad idea. However, I wonder if Putin would have been emboldened to annexe Crimea if there was a standing EU army? I can understand the Baltic states and the Eastern countries being nervous at the moment and a strong EU is arguably essential to prevent potential events in the East dragging Europe into conflict as in 1914 and 1939.

 

If for any reason we stayed in the EU how would we go on in 2020 as with all EU countries we lose our veto's will we have to take the Euro as our currency ?.

 

That wouldnt happen, for the same reasons we are not already in the Euro but have continued within the EU. We are a strong economy that Germany and France (and their banking systems in particular) want within the EU, hence being allowed to not participate in certain aspects of the EU.

If, however, it came to the point of Euro membership being the price of access to the European markets then fine, we walk away.

 

I completely understand the difference, but the fact that you’ve gone straight to attempting belittle me rather than discussing reasonably is demonstrative of the same, there’s no use in even debating it.

 

And so would be their right. I don’t think people are ignoring the first referendum at all. If this was a decision entirely made by parliament, I would wholly be supporting them reversing the decision and remaining in the EU. Whether we agree or disagree on this point, I think we’re better inside the EU and I did, and would continue to vote in favour of remaining. That being said, I understand we had a referendum, but I believe it was based on falsities and already broken promises, and people know that now. For this reason, I do not believe many people would vote the same way. I now believe the fairest way is to put it back to the people who made the decision in the first place. I think this is still democracy, whether others agree or not. You don’t have to, that is completely your right.

 

Can't you see, it doesn't matter what the people say, parliament is made up of approx. 67% remainers, contrary to what the people want...forward thinking leavers never had a chance...

 

That part is undeniable, parliament is compromised of those mostly in favour of remaining. However, they were elected after the referendum and Parliament needs MPs with differing views and opinions.

 

Both Labour and Conservative MPs were elected on a manifesto to implement Brexit well after the referendum to leave took place and are reneging on that promises they gave when elected, Unless you are implying it is ok to lie to the people and say anything to get elected and then do as you please which would be a strange form of democracy indeed

 

Is there any point in debating with this sort of reply " I understand we had a referendum, but I believe it was based on falsities and already broken promises, and people know that now", obviously there were only lies on the leave side the remainders told the truth, good luck with trying to persuade a remainer who thinks because we voted for something entirely different back in the 1970 it has any bearing on the last referendum.
In football terms a little like saying the club MK Dons are really Wimbledon but just moved around 160 mile trip to Milton Keys.

 

If for some reason we had a second referendum and the vote stayed the same you know what the outcome would be? Best of five. Sick of hearing how we didn't know what we were voting for, derided with pathetic name calling like 'gammons', calls of illegal campaigns, the list goes on.

 

Your attitude and efforts to belittle me are embarrassing, and exactly why I will never sympathise with your cause. I didn’t claim that both sides didn’t lie, merely that people are more informed now.

 

You've made your point perfectly clear, that you won't leave under any circumstance. We really need to stop this nonsense that we didn't know what we were voting for. This idea that people are more informed is amusing. More informed in what way exactly? That we now know that our visit to the ballot stations was actually a complete waste of time. I voted for the first time in over 25 years because i thought my vote my somehow mean something. Turns out part of what you say was right. I was lied to, my vote means nothing.