Most liked posts in thread: World war 3....

Putin warned Zelensky that he would not accept Ukraine joining NATO and having them on his border, He built up an army on the border over six months while warning of the consequences if Ukraine applied to join, Zelensky ignored the warnings and called his bluff and we are where we are, In Putins world it would be better for Russia to have no Ukraine than a Ukraine in NATO,

 

The reason that NATO has expanded to Russia's border is because none of the ex Soviet bloc countries trust Russia to leave them alone. So, many of them have, in turn, sought membership of NATO to protect themselves from Russia's threatening noises.
The illegal annexation of Crimea and puppet administrations in Donbas and Belarus only added to the insecurity of former Soviet bloc countries. Putin, and other hardline hawks, have made no secret of their desire to regain some of their former empire so who can blame those countries for joining NATO?
If Russia had democratised after the disintegration of the USSR there would be no need for those countries to join NATO, but it didn't.

 

This feels worthy enough reason to shove 10 pence on a litre of fuel I expect

 

Heard they are heading up the M4 ...Yikes.... !!

 

A useful preliminary summing-up here by a reputable historian:

https://snyder.substack.com/p/prigozhins-march-on-moscow?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

That also makes a few points about Putin's weakened state.

I'd say that, in general, dictators don't get to their positions without a certain degree of ruthlessness -- which Putin has proved to have in abundance in past actions. To come to a deal with the leader of a mutiny that could have developed into a coup (attempt) that leaves the leader and his followers alive (and possibly pardoned) doesn't project the 'Putin stronk' image that this dictator needs. To not order in airstrikes on the column(s) of mutineers, progressing along known roads, when the bulk of your air force is intact and capable, is another glaring omission. Could they not be trusted? Another sign of weakness. Surely Putin didn't also have a huge attack of conscience about killing fellow Russians? Tyrant and usurper having the same warm fuzzies about each others sides would be something new!

No, no one comes out of this looking good. But, long may the internal chaos continue, as that's going to be good for Ukraine.

RCB

 

Put me down for Todmorden. Bloody Lancastrians trying to lay claim to bits of Yorkshire...

 

What do you mean by honest? The man reinvented history???

 

Why wouldn’t you?

Any election with only one realistic candidate isn’t an election. Especially when the main opposition leader has just been bumped off.

Your naivety, or Russian bias (whichever it is) is truly staggering.

 

A friend of mine is in the army and spends 4/6 months of the year stationed in Estonianwith other NATO forces and has done for years, so it’s not all one way NATO countries have put troops near Russian borders also. Since world war 2 there has always been an anti Russia agenda by the US, firstly in the name of Communism but it’s carried on. I feel there has been a racial element to it as well with western countries for years such as, Britain, France, Germany and the US seeing them as some inferior Slavs.

War could brake out but it can’t entirely be put at Russia’s door as they have their own issues with how the NATO allies are with them. The only way to ever get world peace, or at least not create a world war 3 scenario would be to somehow have China and Russia come onboard with NATO. But it’s always been East vs West.

 

Boris is sanctioning 5 Russian banks, 3 Russian oligarchs and freezing their assets whilst banning travel to Britain, Chelsea out of business ?.

 

Worse to come in the future, The USAs strength in the world is through the dollar and in future other currencies even digital ones will erode the dollar and weaken the influence the USA has,

 

Putin.. War criminal.

 

Exactly. It is a great pity that they had far too Russian-friendly and, one must say, corrupt, governments in the decades after independence.

This is why it was so important for countries such as the Baltics, and those of the former Warsaw Pact, to get into NATO and the EU as quickly as possible -- even if a proportion of the citizens were leery of, or even hostile to, both. It is not an ironclad guarantee of safety, but it is nonetheless very good. If I were Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan, I'd be worried rather more now; even Finland should be concerned, and take steps to enter NATO.

The sad/depressing thing is that we will be stuck with this situation for another two decades or so -- until all of Putin's generation have gone. They were all born at the height of the USSR, with the "Great Patriotic War" (which they won on their own -- ha!) fresh in the memory, and an Empire. Putin and his type want that back. The rest of the world has moved into the 2020s, but he/they are back in the 1920s and 30s, using exactly the same techniques as then. Only now, no one is fooled. But still, when the bully is a nuclear superpower, it is difficult to fight force with force -- the only thing that would be understood.

A very sad day for Europe; sadder still for the Ukrainians.

RCB

 

And this is the sad reality of war: the more bodies you produce, the better for your side. The Russians have the weaponry and manpower to win, but if that must be, the Ukrainians nonetheless have to make it as bloody for them as possible. Whether this will alter Putin's course though is debatable -- Russian leaders, both civil and military, have form for not being all that bothered by how many of their own die... At least there have been protests in Russia, but note the arrests in response.

I forgot about Moldova in my last post. Yes, that may well be the next one to go. It has been good to hear both the US and NATO stress Article 5 in their announcements today; good too that forces are being repositioned and more are on the way. Putin is all the more dangerous because he is intelligent (always assuming he is still in full posession of his marbles). An old saying of Lenin's applies, to the effect that you thrust with your bayonet, and if you meet something soft, you keep pushing, but if you meet steel, you pull back. NATO (along with the individual countries) needs to provide that steel; so far it seems to be doing so: the F35s, the various attack helicopters, the troop redeployments and the additional troops on the way.

But this, too, is why Finland needs to be concerned. It, too, was once part of the Empire that Tsar Vladimir the First (Vladimir III) would like to recreate.

It is going to be a worrying time for all, and even more so for those of us with connexions to the countries on Europe's/NATO's eastern border.

(edited to add the "if" in my reply to Park)

RCB

 

May be propaganda, but it does seem like it’s not going all Russia’s way. Wars don’t always go the bigger aggressors way. Russia in Afghanistan, US in Vietnam, western allies in Afghanistan etc.

 

So after watching needless deaths on both sides of the conflict, what exactly Putins end game here? And what is the west's response? When eventually he takes Ukraine (cos he can't go back after what he's started) what does he expect the rest of the world to do? Can't just shake your hands of it and carry on like nothing has happened. It does seem like Putin has called the bluff of the west and they had no hand to counter him with due to the west being balls deep in the Russian dirty billions.

 

Putin will nuke us if we step in, is it worth us all dying for?

 

The fact that Trump was correct about certain things - most people (even Trump) are occasionally correct about some things - doesn't alter the fact that his basic stance with Putin was (and still is) fawning admiration and appeasement. He even chose to believe Putin's word over the hard evidence obtained by US security agencies, which should have lead to him being prosecuted for treason.
Trump worships strength and bullying - it's how he was brought up by his bully of a father and is how he has conducted his own business all his life. Putin is, basically, Trump's idol.

I completely agree that Corbyn would have handled this no better than Trump would have. Both would have appeased Putin for even longer than the rest of the west has done. But I don't know why you're bringing up Corbyn in your reply to me, as if I were a supporter of him, which I wasn't. I admit that I voted for Corbyn in his initial election to Labour leader, but I very quickly realised my mistake. I've made it very clear on here for a very long time that Corbyn couldn't lead his way out of a wet paper bag and I'm very glad that he's gone.

 

Notice the west has now started to ban the Russian TV channel RT which is a really poor decision restricting the freedom to choose who we watch and listen to, what do they fear from another viewpoint?, While it is state run and has a Russian bias most understand that and it is a disgrace that the west is only allowing viewers to watch the western media ( just as biased in some ways ) Notice the freedom loving EU was at the head of the queue to ban it