Quantcast
  1. Welcome to Bantam Talk

    Why not register for an account?

    Not only can you then get fully involved in the community but you also get fewer ads

  2. Premium Membership now Available


    Please see this thread for more details

    Dismiss Notice

UK Politics

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Bronco, May 5, 2021.

  1. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter Euro2020 Winner Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 3rd Place

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2018
    Messages:
    7,171
    Likes Received:
    10,998
    That may be true of the people you engage with. But there are huge swathes of economic conservatives in Southern England who were Remainers, who are concerned about climate change and the environment, who are socially far more liberal than you or your ilk and are thoroughly brassed off with the climate change denying, immigrant blaming, culture war warriors running the government.
     
    Welshbantam likes this.
  2. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,845
    Likes Received:
    9,073
    This country is far bigger than Islington mate ...while the rest of us can see that if we achieved net zero tomorrow it wouldn't make the slightest difference to the climate, that the channel invasion is crippling the country and wrecking our economy and culture and the cancel culture is there to see in all walks of life again all with the objective of destroying the western way of life as we once knew it...
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #502 Tony Wilkinson, Sep 13, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2023
    Bronco likes this.
  3. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,832
    Likes Received:
    3,989
    They're spending record amounts mate. No government has ever spent more. The right wing ideals of small government are deep in the bin. it's not enough to keep some of the elements of society running smoothly but that's exactly the discussion.

    Are you saying Kiers manifesto to get into the powerful position of opposition leader wasn't misleading? No excuses, was it an accurate reflection of the priorities we know now in terms of policy?
     
  4. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,832
    Likes Received:
    3,989
    If this was true why wouldn't the Labour Party just reflect these ideals rather than moving closer and closer to the Conservatives?
     
    Tony Wilkinson likes this.
  5. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter Euro2020 Winner Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 3rd Place

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2018
    Messages:
    7,171
    Likes Received:
    10,998
    Labour has to Win votes in relatively affluent, socially liberal but fiscally conservative home counties seats. But they also have to win back Red Wall seats, which tend to be poorer, socially conservative (eg much more concerned about immigration and 'woke issues than home counties areas) but who want serious 'levelling up' money spent on crumbling infrastructure, better health and other public services and don't mind taxing the (mostly southern) wealthy to get it.
    This is a difficult tightrope to walk.
     
    Bronco likes this.
  6. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter Euro2020 Winner Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 3rd Place

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2018
    Messages:
    7,171
    Likes Received:
    10,998
    They are reaping the rewards of ten years of misplaced, wrong-headed austerity. They kept cutting when they should have been investing. This caused our economy to stagnate when other countries were growing. So now they're having to tax, borrow and spend to try to stand still. They're completely paralysed. But all their instincts are still to cut the public sector as much as they can get away with and to privatise what they can't cut.

    Re Starmer's leadership manifesto, to be honest, I don't care. I accept that he may have over promised a bit in order to get elected. He's hardly unique in that respect. But I think it was mostly a reflection of what he aspired to do at the time. But he's had to row back on many of his genuine policy aspirations because of economic realities and also because of the electoral balancing act I referred to above.
    What he has done is made the party electable again, after the worst electoral defeat in its history. He's dealt with the antisemitism issue and also the entryism by the far left. There were people in the LP when Corbyn resigned who should never have been in the party - ex Militant and SWP types who are well to the hard left and outside of what a 'broad church' LP can accommodate. Starmer has done the necessary hard work to reduce the influence of these people and get rid of them where appropriate. I accept that he may have trampled on a few people unnecessarily along the way but it was never going to be an easy or pain-free process.

    I believe that Keir Starmer is a genuinely good man, with soft left principles that roughly accord with mine. All his pre-leadership history supports that view. He has had to make uncomfortable compromises, some of which I'm sure he regrets in private, to get the LP in a position to win the next General Election with a decent majority. I'm fine with that and I don't really care if you aren't. I doubt you'd have voted Labour at the next GE whatever Starmer says or does.
     
    #506 Offcomedun, Sep 14, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
  7. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter Euro2020 Winner Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 3rd Place

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2018
    Messages:
    7,171
    Likes Received:
    10,998
    I'm not talking about Islington, am I? Most London seats are a given for Labour. I'm talking about seats in Surrey, Sussex, Kent, Hertfordshire, Essex, Hampshire etc. Places that are now rammed full of young, educated professionals whose social and environmental attitudes are light years away from your 'stuck in the 1950s', GB News, conspiracy theory nonsense.
     
  8. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,845
    Likes Received:
    9,073
    You have not read the room if you think that the majority in this country support Net Zero, mass legal/Illegal immigration and the left engineered total wokeness that is endemic not only here but parts of Europe and indeed the U.S.A
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Bronco likes this.
  9. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,845
    Likes Received:
    9,073
    Also, you have obviously never watched GB News or else you would realise that although the presenters do not shy away from their thoughts but the guests they have on always reflect views from both sides...watch and learn..!!
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    17,277
    Likes Received:
    41,071
    Most folk are worried how to pay the bills and put food on the table whilst scrambling around places like food banks. Funny how it seems that people like just stop Oil and climate protesters don't seem to generally have these problems.
     
  11. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    17,277
    Likes Received:
    41,071
    Here's one for you Tone. Been doing a job at an Asian guys house, find out he works for the Bat department at the inland revenue (boooo). Anyway, tells me a story of how a year or two back he was called into the office, a 'complaint' had been made. The result of which was a training course. For what you ask? Well, as a smoker he used the word 'fag' when telling someone in the office he was off outside for a smoke. I shit you not, I asked if he was lying and he swore it was the truth. Inappropriate language, for a guy whose worked there over 20 years.
     
  12. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,845
    Likes Received:
    9,073
    This kind of stuff is all around us, and it's not only the blind that cannot see......or ,they choose not to, all driven by the left because, up to now, they couldn't win at the ballot box..
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    17,277
    Likes Received:
    41,071
    Its a strange world we live in. Europe is a huge mess, we seem to be influenced by crazy shit from America.
     
  14. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    5,860
    Likes Received:
    7,678
    Whoever gets in next time will be severely restricted in what they can spend and achieve due to the Conservatives borrowing huge amounts because of bad management, We pay more in interest payments each year than the whole Education and defence budget and is still growing
     
    Offcomedun likes this.
  15. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2018
    Messages:
    3,832
    Likes Received:
    3,989
    Their instincts might be but their policies certainly aren't. I can't actually recall a true right wing financial policy that's been implemented for about 5 years!

    You do make me laugh!! "Overpromised" is one way of describing a man who has ditched basically 70% of the promises that he was voted into his position on and backtracked on a number of others. The electoral balancing act you keep mentioning is the fact that his apparently instinctive policies are unpopular with the electorate therefore he has to mislead on them to get into power. Is that the balance?

    And you're wrong about voting for them. I've only ever voted Conservative once in my life so it won't be a particularly a big jump for me to go back to another party - especially when I don't particularly view the current crop of Tories as doing what they're supposed to do in terms of offering a different path. Hilariously everything that Kier is saying about not changing anything is making him more electable to me but that's because he's moving his principles towards mine. I don't like the fact that his promises seemingly don't mean anything though and his supporters keep telling me that he has to lie to get me to vote for him, it obviously makes me wary.

    Changing parties is easy for me though as I can judge what they're offering and pivot. Whereas Kier could announce that he was going to invade Ireland and you'd go "Ah yeah but 10 years or austerity, Covid, right wing press, he has to do things he doesn't really want to #VoteRed" :joy:
     
  16. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,845
    Likes Received:
    9,073
    Security pull the wrong bloke off the stage ........

    76380573-12614723-image-a-58_1696944055403.jpg
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    17,277
    Likes Received:
    41,071
    And they wonder why they struggle to get back into power at Westminster. Having seen some of the conference i'm sure they'll try everything as a party come the next general election to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It almost like half their party don't want to be in power despite the conservatives literally giving it to them on a plate.
     
  18. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
    Qatar 2022 Entrant P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter Euro2020 Winner Euro 2020 P.L. 20/21 3rd Place

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2018
    Messages:
    7,171
    Likes Received:
    10,998
    Why? What do you think they did wrong this conference? Seemed pretty sure footed to me. What would you have had them do differently?
    NB we don’t know who the protester was, what he was protesting about or whether he was a LP member. Starmer dealt with the interruption very well.
     
  19. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2018
    Messages:
    17,277
    Likes Received:
    41,071
    I didn't hear anything that I wouldn't have heard at any other labour party conference. Got to remember here, and this is important, that I don't come from any political allegiance or agenda.I simply believe we have a not fit for purpose prime minister and his party currently in charge and I would like to see a change to that. But I still believe that by the next election Labour will have shot themselves in the feet that many times the electorate will vote against them. I hope I'm proved wrong but above all we do need change.
     
  20. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
    P.L.22/23 Entrant P.L.23/24 Entrant Supporter P.L. 20/21 Top 10

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    6,845
    Likes Received:
    9,073
    Reform will give you that change RT and for the better ......
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice