Summer 2023 Transfer Rumours

Why are so many people saying Hughes doesn't rate young players? Absolute tosh with no basis. He's played many young players if they're good enough throughout his career as a manager. People are just making stuff up now because they're upset at his tactics

 

Most if not all our managers have had no faith in our youth products, including Parkinson. The only one Parky have any sort of game time to was McBurnie, even then only a handful of games and he was so far a stand out compared to any other youth player we’ve had in many a year. If Pointon proves to stand out he’ll get game time. All our previous managers have proven correct to not trust youth, look at where our youth products usually end up, out of football. It’s a nonsense and just a stick to beat Hughes with, it’s something I don’t believe for one minute those saying it actually believe in themselves.

 

To say it has no basis is very naïve. Look into his history and the patterns that follow, he doesn't tend to use youth, or at most a few and likes an older squad. Below are the average ages of squads he has built and managed for a full season.

Blackburn - Hughes became manager in Sept 04 and for the 04/05 season their average age was listed 9th at 27.5. Full seasons that followed...
4th oldest squad at 27.7 (oldest was 28.1) - 05/06
4th oldest squad at 27.7 (oldest was 28) - 06/07
1st, the oldest squad at 27.9 - 07/08

Fulham - joined after the 09/10 season. For the 09/10 season Fulham were the oldest squad at 28.9. Full season that followed...
1st, still the oldest squad at an older average of 29.6 - 10/11

Stoke - joined after the 13/14 season. For the 13/14 season, Stoke were 8th at 27.3. Full seasons that followed...
8th oldest squad at 27.3 (oldest was 28.6) - 13/14
5th oldest squad at 27.5 (oldest was 28.7) - 14/15
5th oldest squad at 27.5 (oldest was 28.6) - 15/16
2nd oldest squad at 28.6 (oldest was 28.9) -16/17

Bradford City - joined Feb 2022. For the 21/22 season, City were 9th at 26.6. Full season that followed...
10th oldest squad at the same average age of 26.6 (oldest was 28.2) - 22/23
And so far the squad we have for the coming season is ranked as the 5th oldest squad at 27 (oldest is 28.2).

His pattern at every club where he's had time to build something over multiple windows always goes one way. Eventually he ends up looking at guys in their late 20's/early 30's rather than teens to early 20s players. There is very much a basis for the assumption that Hughes doesn't always use youth.

 

The lack of transfer activity is very worrying, most of us can see the squad is massively under cooked & I think the ones who thought we was good enough got a wake up call early Saturday afternoon when squad was announced. It’s all good sparks & hughes saying we’re gunna go into the loan market at end of month, we have plenty of games before that and if we end up out of form it’s very difficult to regain momentum & the closer we get to deadline day we will end up with another nevers

 

Listed info that's on the official PL stats page, OPTA, or Transfermarkt. All have the same stats pages.

I did say the stats were for squads he has built and managed for a full season. It's known that Hughes wasn't running the transfers at City when the money came in, he became part of a committee. He signed 4 or 5 players at Man City before all that changed, so it's tough to know which signings were his during his stint and which weren't. Like he's openly said before he had no idea they were signing Robinho, but I'd imagine he was behind Craig Bellamy or Wayne Bridge coming in.

And he didn't managed a full season at Southampton, so it's tough to see what he built. He came in for the last 8 games of the 17/18 season, and was sacked 14 games into the 18/19 season. But when he joined Southampton, they were 16th in the average age table for 17/18 with the average at bang on 26. They didn't sign anyone the January window after they sacked Hughes so it was his team they used for the whole season in 18/19 and it's the first time he went younger. Southamptons squad were the 19th oldest at 25.4 years old. He managed just 1 win in 14 that season before his sacking.

 

I don't think he is against youth, but I see the point when people bring it up as his managerial history shows a pattern when he's building squads season on season, that the younger lads tend to see less time. I personally don't into read us signing the 3 lads to pro deals as Hughes wanting to use them in the squad, as seemingly every season we signed 3 or 4 lads from the academy to a pro deal.

Just from the friendlies, and I know it's pointless reading anything into game time in friendlies as they are just used for minutes in legs, but I saw more from Pointon to suggest keeping him around than going for another Costelloe, Nevers, Pereira type. Or Youmbi, looks like he has a good frame on him and can learn from our experienced forwards, if we are short up front I'd prefer to see him make the bench over bringing in some unknown 19 year old from the Middlesbrough U21s for example. But I can see why fans are sceptical of their use, because its what we have always done and it's a pattern Hughes has tended to always follow in looking elsewhere.

 

Very hard to tell with young players in friendlies Scales looked very good in pre season in recent years and look where he is. We have decent players in that sort of area. Not saying Pointon isn’t a good prospect but let’s not build him up beyond what he is capable of. We should be concentrating on finding a left wing back and a quality centre half. Then with the returning Stubbs and McDonald we should be a,right

 

How many of those did Hughes sign

 

Wasn’t putting up any argument just wondering how many of those players he signed. I agree players should be picked on merit not age. But it’s a fact some managers are more likely to give youth a chance than others

 

The problem with L2 is they cannot afford to experiment with youth players, teams are either top 10 or bottom 10, neither can afford to “ give them a go” unless they have no option through injury or suspension , if results are of importance.

Bobby will be given a go ( if fit, he wasn’t Saturday!) in pointless cup games and if he performs he will make it difficult for MH or indeed any manager.

All this utter tosh about “ Not giving youngsters a go” is just conspiracy theory nonsense once again.

If they are good enough they will play.

 

If they kept a bulk of their players then yes that would be the case all around the leagues but it's never that way. As PL squads tend to have a lot of pros on the books they'll release a lot of lads as they were more stock pilled on pro deals. Or one year have a few 19 year olds come in and play a handful of games but be around the squad and the next they are out on loan so will alter their average age.

Like the first Stoke season above for example. Between that and the second season the age went up by 0.2 to 27.5. That next season they brought in 4 players who went onto be squad players that season at an average age of bang on 27. They released or sold 10 first team players who had an average age of 24.4. They also loaned in 3 players and sent out 10 on loan so because of the amount of turnover those 30+ man PL squads of a decade ago had the ages should flux. Most PL clubs sign a similar amount of 18 year olds from their academy then release a similar amount of 20-21 year olds in a similar number most seasons which also keeps numbers low too.

 

Certainly Kev and not just League 2, every club in every league in this country due to the pressures from fans and owners are the same. As you say if you’re good enough however, few are unfortunately compared to how many dream of it. It makes me laugh (not outwardly) when I meet people and they say my son plays for Man City or man united and they’re 12 years old. The likelihood is the child will be at university or in a 9-5 job by 19 and that’s if they have sense.

Personally I’d love a rule that states all 92 professional members of the top 4 leagues must have an academy of some sort, and I’d go much further than the home grown rule. I’d make it so one player who’s graduated in the last 2-3 years must at all times be in the starting 11. Creates a slightly more level playing field for all and makes clubs take youth development that more seriously. Also gives those who already put so much into it, often at a cost to themselves a better chance.

 

How are we even getting these stats ? Must be a right ball ache (and possibly a left as well) to trawl through an entire squad, find out their birth dates and work out an average age. Surely whoever has done this can't be using wiki for birthdates as they are totally unreliable and to get an average you have to take fractions of years as at the start of the season into account.