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Reserve, Youth Leagues & The Development of Young Players

Discussion in 'City Talk' started by Loyalbantam, Nov 15, 2022.

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  1. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    So, you've no idea what we have received for lads we've sold. You've no idea what the set up costs and you've no idea what a "guaranteed first teamer" might ask for but you've still come to that conclusion?

    Night Trev, I'm signing off :thumbup:
     
    #41 NorthernMonkey, Nov 16, 2022
  2. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    Playing with words mate.
     
    #42 Kevin1954, Nov 16, 2022
  3. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    It’s like debating with my 9 year old grandsons whilst playing Twister!
     
    #43 Kevin1954, Nov 16, 2022
  4. Allotment Bantam

    Allotment Bantam Squad Player
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    Do we think that City would be investing in youth development if it made a loss?

    I don't think so.
     
    #44 Allotment Bantam, Nov 16, 2022
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  5. Dratsab taf

    Dratsab taf Squad Player

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    Thats only if it comes to a tribunal after the clubs have failed to agree on a figure. If you have a 15 year old lad that half the premier league want then they will all bid any number of sums to get him, it essentially becomes an auction.

    Hence the 1/4m potentially from the lad that Brighton signed
     
    #45 Dratsab taf, Nov 16, 2022
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  6. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    HaHa Kevin, True to form, When you are out debated or lose your argument you resort to little digs, , I make allowances for your age but you do seem flawed as a poster in little contribution other than carping and critisim , Good Luck
     
    #46 trevor, Nov 17, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022
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  7. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Did Sam Hornby come through? Think we got a fee for him
     
    #47 Storck, Nov 17, 2022
  8. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    The cost of the youth set up in the clubs accounts are £585 thousand. Any player leaving is subject to a formula set by the FA for compensation and add ons cannot be guaranteed. The cost of a first team player should be less than the £500k of the youth system. Night NM
     
    #48 trevor, Nov 17, 2022
  9. Stafford Bantam

    Stafford Bantam Captain
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    City, like other EFL clubs, receive a financial contribution, to their academy, from the Premier League, which is in addition to the 'solidarity' payment. I believe the academy contribution is based on the category status of each club.

    It is difficult to find much detail but this article reveals that the Premier League's academy contribution to City in 2019/20 was £430,000. https://www.premierleague.com/news/1939288
     
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    #49 Stafford Bantam, Nov 17, 2022
  10. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Important Player
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    It's in the accounts Youth Income £506,087
     
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    #50 Interested Bystander, Nov 17, 2022
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  11. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    So using those two figures, the actual cost to the club is about £80k, minus and sponsorship deals that may be in place etc
     
    #51 Storck, Nov 17, 2022
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  12. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    Oh don’t worry It’s not a dig……Straight up front me, so no mincing words. And the “ debate I lost” was which one exactly?
     
    #52 Kevin1954, Nov 17, 2022
  13. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    Yet we have no revenue stream from Youth Development according to some?

    Wasn’t it Sparks who said it at brought in at least £1m in the last couple of years or so.?

    The mind boggles!
     
    #53 Kevin1954, Nov 17, 2022
  14. NorthernMonkey

    NorthernMonkey Squad Player
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    Your figures are light years out Trevor. There's not a chance we're spending circa £600k a season on keeping the youth system going.
     
    #54 NorthernMonkey, Nov 17, 2022
  15. SimonW

    SimonW Administrator
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    I've mentioned before on here, the FA's changes to the youth setup with the aim of helping bring young English players through has destroyed the youth leagues.

    Before as you said the reserve leagues were great, you would have the regular youth players who would be involved every week, a couple of academy players would get promoted up for a game for experience and you would get some senior players who either needed game time or were coming back from an injury. It was these senior players who were key, playing against people in your age group with the same experience levels doesn't really help players improve. That's because experienced players have learnt how to make the most of what they have, stick the smallest, weakest experienced player up against a youngster who is naturally well built physically (say someone who looks like an 18 year old Paul Pogba) and the experienced player will just bully the youngster because the younster has spent most of their time playing football with people in their age group being defeated before it started and bottling out of challenges, if you have physicality you need to learn to use it and if you don;y you need exposed to people who also don't but have learnt to use it. And there are other areas similar where its only by playing with experienced players that young players really learn, turning reserve leagues into u23 leagues has made them unfit for purpose, it offers nothing that the u18's does which is why teams send so many players out on loan and why some clubs have stopped playing in reserve/u23 leagues. Its better for them to just have a reserve team that's not entered into anything and not do full player development, they pick up players dropped by clubs that have academies and then have them play for either their B team which many clubs that do this have in the lower tiers or they have a reserve team and arrange private friendlies behind closed doors. You save on league entry fees, you save from having to meet certain requirements if you did have formal u18/23 teams, if you are outside the prem you can make a decent amount from prem teams who are looking for behind closed door opponents and you still get the benefit of younger players coming good for your club or who can be sold off and make a profit.

    We should have formal leagues for young players to play in but unless we have full on review based on facts and not faint hopes that the change will see more youngsters getting into first teams its pointless
     
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    #55 SimonW, Nov 17, 2022
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  16. Interested Bystander

    Interested Bystander Important Player
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    Correct as far a I can tell.
     
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    #56 Interested Bystander, Nov 17, 2022
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  17. Kevin1954

    Kevin1954 Squad Player
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    We agree on all counts. It’s false economy, for the reasons you eloquently state, not to have reserve teams playing in a league. They don’t even “ have” to play in stadia. If they were held on suitable club training grounds and pitches , during daylight hours, it would be very cheap to run, especially as security and club non playing staff wouldn’t be required. I would assume the only “ cost “ would be paying local officials and player refreshments.? No brainer for me.
    They wouldn’t even have to advertise games in advance thus reducing the risk of unannounced supporters turning up requiring security staff.
     
    #57 Kevin1954, Nov 17, 2022
  18. Old Grey Fox

    Old Grey Fox Squad Player
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    Sam Hornby came from Port Vale.
     
    #58 Old Grey Fox, Nov 17, 2022
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  19. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    couldn’t remember, plus didn’t realise he was that old, thought he was still a kid. He was 22 when he signed for Port Vale
     
    #59 Storck, Nov 17, 2022
  20. DimitriPayet

    DimitriPayet Squad Player
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    This is a terrible post
     
    #60 DimitriPayet, Nov 17, 2022
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