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Pro Palestine march rememberance Sunday

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Peter, Nov 10, 2023.

  1. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

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    Those noises were being made by plenty on that march. And again, the mass turnout speaks to the anti-semitic mindset in my opinion. You've referenced Israel's 'indiscriminate slaughter' in Gaza. I won't deny that there are mass civilian casualties, which is horrific, but those causalities are a consequence of seeking out and destroy a Hamas group who embeds itself amongst the population, who has been reported as preventing Gazan's from seeking to leave the country in refuge and who used the aid funding provided not to help its people, but build a mass of underground tunnels.

    The indiscriminate slaughter came from Hamas, who launched a battalion sized invasion of Israel to deliberately target, kidnap, rape, torture and murder civilians. A filmed themselves doing it, in glee. Supported by Gazans, celebrating their 'accomplishments'. Most of what took place is so horrific, I won't repeat it on here, but I was reading of one report from the associated press, of a family who were forced to watch as their baby was placed into an oven to be roasted alive, before being killed themselves. What on earth is Israel supposed to do? Its surrounded by an ideology that openly calls for its destruction and backs that narrative with action.

    Its a complex issue, with grievances on 'both sides', so its extremely difficult to unpick. But imagine any other country in the world having to endure what Israel did on 7th Oct, then responding with military force only to see mass protests in support of the country who committed those horrific acts!
     
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  2. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Yup. The process of turning the Conservative Party into a far right minority party just got massively ramped up.

    Recent polling suggesting a massive Labour win at the next GE. Whilst I don’t believe that those numbers will be sustained, it looks highly likely that Labour is heading for a healthy majority next year. If the unrepresentative, ageing rump of Tory Party members think that voting to be led by an extremist like Braverman will get them back into power, they are kidding themselves. The return of the Nasty Party is out of step with demographic changes and prevailing social attitudes, despite what some on here would have you believe. Huge numbers of erstwhile Tory constituents in Southern seats are abandoning the Tories in droves, appalled at their increasingly intolerant posturing.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-on-course-for-landslide-election-victory-as-tories-face-wipeout-mega-poll-says_uk_655074e3e4b0c9f246606549
     
  3. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    But that's the problem Steve, most don't care too hoots for Palestine. Those young kids I watched outside MacDonalds on Ingleby Road have no real knowledge of what's going on. They just stand waving their flags and banners with no idea of what they are doing. And Palestine isn't something that ever comes up in the circles i frequent, funny I'm working for some Asian guys today and when asked none of them really cared for what was happening other than it's sad that kids are being killed. Honestly, of those that were in London protesting on Saturday, most are just bandwagon jumpers with grievances against the West, whether that be American foreign policy or Sunaks useless Government, Palestine just gives them an excuse to sound off. I think the worrying trends are from places of learning such as colleges and universities , mosques and the like where you g impressionable people are being indoctrinated to hate Western culture and values. And Palatine is just a small part of that narrative. Thankfully the way I brought up my son his mind isn't poisoned by any of this.
     
  4. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    If Labour can't win the next election I'd argue they have no right to a future in British politics. We might as well stick Churchill the nodding dog in number than have another term of Tory rule.
     
  5. Idlebantam

    Idlebantam Squad Player
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    Top post Faithful brilliantly put
     
  6. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    You are ignoring the fact that the indiscriminate bombing in Gaza won’t achieve what it purportedly sets out to do. It will destroy essential infrastructure and kill and maim many more thousands. It may get rid of some of the tunnels, but it won’t destroy Hamas, the leadership of which is safely sitting pretty in other Arab countries. If anything, it will radicalise more Palestinians to support Hamas and so the conflict will go on and on.

    Hamas deliberately timed its horrific atrocities to scupper peace talks with certain Arab countries. It has succeeded absolutely. Netanyahu, in his desperation to cling to power, focused all his energies and most of his military forces on supporting the illegal West Bank occupiers, thereby allowing Hamas to build up its capabilities in Gaza unchecked. He failed to protect the progressive Israelis living on kibbutz in the south who mostly favour a negotiated two state solution. He screwed up big time - a fact widely recognised in Israel, where his popularity is now at an all time low.
    The only way that support for the animals in Hamas will wane is by getting the settlers out of the West Bank and giving Palestinians a secure territory where they can make a reasonable life without being constantly harassed by illegal settlers and the IDF who support them. I’m as appalled as anyone by what Hamas did but I can also give you details of atrocities committed by the IDF in the occupied territories which are never reported here.
    I fully understand the anger at what Hamas did on 7th October. But killing many times more people in revenge is not going to end the conflict. It will make it worse. As Churchill said, ‘ Jaw jaw is better than war war’ and only that has a hope of long term success.
     
  7. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Precisely. And yet some on here would have you believe that the entire Muslim community in Britain is fired up by antisemitism and a desire to see Israel wiped off the map. Clearly that isn’t true.
    Likewise, most of the people who support Palestinian right to a secure homeland are not antisemitic and fully accept the existence of the state of Israel. It’s the extreme minority who don’t who make all the headlines and play into the hands of those who want to portray everyone on the left as antisemitic, which is bollocks.
     
  8. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Likewise the vast majority of Israelis just want to a peaceful life without having to dodge rockets or be in fear of their lives from militant Hamad. We could keep going back and forward like this for ages, as I have always alluded to there is no moral highground to be had here. But you try explain that to those folk complaint outside a 'Western' Macdonald's in Bradford, a franchise that is owned by a prominent local Asian businessman.
     
  9. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Like I said before, there are idiots in all walks of life, but that doesn’t make everyone an idiot.

    I’m claiming no moral high ground for either side here. Of course ordinary innocent Israelis want a peaceful life without rocket attacks and Hamas atrocities. But they’ll never get it until the Palestinians have their own homeland territory, unperturbed by illegal Israeli settlers and IDF harassment. It’s swings and roundabouts and it’s been going on for decades, as a consequence of reestablishing the Jewish homeland without properly securing the needs of the displaced people who’d been living there for a thousand years. It’s so depressing. It’s obvious that a negotiated two state solution is the only way to bring peace and to curtail the support for extremists on both sides, but so many vested interests keep getting in the way of that aim.
     
  10. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    Hard to disagree with that, I'm certainly no apologist for Israel. They haven't helped themselves at times with the way they've stripped land from Gaza. My major gripe is with folk in countries like my homeland who have no dog in the fight yet choose to get involved. I won't take sides for either, they are both as bad as each other and neither will listen to any sort of reason. What happened in Gaza the last week or two has been upsetting to watch yet a lot in our country seem to revel in it.
     
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  11. trevor

    trevor Squad Player
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    The reason Egyt and Jordan and others do not want Palestinians on there land is because they know they would be importing terrorists. Hamas claim they have the support of 80% of Palestinians and there lays the problem
     
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  12. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Whether that 80% support claim is true or not, the reason that Hamas get so much support from Palestinians is because no one else is doing anything to protect them or stand up for their rights. They’ve seen their, already inadequate, territory on the West Bank and Gaza steadily reduced by Israel and by illegal settlers and they suffer constant harassment from the IDF. Unless and until the world starts to do something positive to help them then support for Hamas will continue and the vicious circle will keep going round.
     
  13. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    “A lot in our country seem to revel in it”. Really? A lot? The numbers protesting are a tiny minority of the population. And, of those, most are arguing for Palestinian rights and an end to the bloodshed by both sides. The number of people in this country who actively support Hamas or what they did on 7th October is utterly microscopic as a proportion of the population. They just make the most noise, and get lots of outraged attention as a result.
     
  14. Clity

    Clity Fringe Player

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    How can you be so hypocritical? you know nothing about the vast majority of any group just as those who claim to know that jews are [insert whatever stupid trope you like]. Its all bollocks. If you want people to stop hating on jews then maybe you should lead by example. Otherwise why would people take you seriously? Jesus F christ its not rocket science!!

    If you are jewish, then i understand your concern, or maybe i dont understand it but I do recognise it. And I can see why you are fearful because there 100% are people in this country, muslims, nazis and possibly hard left who want to do harm to jews. Those people need to be quashed and their opinions challenged.

    Just because you are fearful doesnt mean you can debase yourself and accuse an entire group of people of being one thing with little evidence to show its truth. We know where that takes us in history.

    People in the UK believe it or not have the right to protest. You live in a democracy which means you will hear the views of people you disagree with. The actual majority of the marchers were normal brits who have a sympathy for the civilians in Gaza and those living under apartheid in the West Bank. There is nothing wrong with protesting for peace on a day that is all about peace.

    Here are 2 reasons for protest that have nothing to do with eradication of israel and jews.

    1. There are actual children dying still, not just on the 7th of october. Are israeli children more important? why is it ok to be up in arms about israels dead but palestines children are just seen as being in the way? A ceasefire is not what Hamas want FFS they want this. Therefore a ceasefire is just the right thing to do. Having a ceasefire or wanting Israel to stop bombing is not favouring palestines children over israels.
    2. Many people do not care for the IDFs mission to make themselves feel better after their monumental feck up. Especially if any child has to be in the way of that goal being achieved. Hamas are the dogs in this, why then does Israel sink to their level? rather than acting like the grown up liberal democracy that they purport to be. They could set an example, find another way, even if its hard. But they wont because Israel is not a liberal democracy at all, palestinians are second class citizens as are israeli arabs. Therfore most people protest against this. Which is legitimate and should not be presented as being racist so it fits ones arguments.
     
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  15. Faithful Bantam

    Faithful Bantam Squad Player

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    The reason Hamas are so well supported by Palestinians is because it embodies their ideology of the obliteration of Israel and murder of Jews.

    Until the notion of a 2 state solution is embraced and proactively pushed by the middle east, and until Hamas leaders are unable to find luxurious safe haven in places like Qatar and Saudo Arabia, and until there's a material shift in Arab thinking that Peace and protection for their own people should take priority over murderous acts against Jews, nothing can or will change.
     
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  16. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    A tiny minority? Really? I'd say the best part half a million people in our capital city, the vast majority of them from a minority background themselves warrants more than just a shrug of the shoulders. Forget Palestine, it's just a smokescreen.
     
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  17. Tony Wilkinson

    Tony Wilkinson Squad Player
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    Why don't they feck off to Egypt or Iran..........................maybe because they don't want them.......?
     
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  18. Clity

    Clity Fringe Player

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    All you tough guys on here I imagine under the stress, death, oppression that one faces being brought up in Gaza. Would have no second thought as to supporting Hamas. Your own fecking prejudices are what you are complaining about from other people. The hypocrisy is unbelievable.
     
  19. Idlebantam

    Idlebantam Squad Player
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    I probably missed out ' in my opinion' . But I stand by my opinion that the majority of these marchers want to see Israel wiped off the face of the map.

    There is an evil undercurrent that could snowball and mirror the 1930's Nazi movement against Jewish people throughout the world, including the UK, Its that serious in my opinion.
     
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  20. Idlebantam

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    Wow, showing your true colours now endorsing Hamas. Hamas couldn't care less about the innocent peace loving Palestinians.
     
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