Pro Palestine march rememberance Sunday

The woman who was alleged to shout ‘kill all the Jews’ doesn’t actually appear to be a protester. She’s a passer by who approaches the camera when she realises there is filming going on. There’s no way of knowing from that clip what the protesters with the flags were saying.
Of course there are some people protesting who are antisemitic and opposed to the state of Israel. But labelling everyone who is protesting on behalf of the Palestinian cause as an antisemite is just wrong.

 

Yeah whatever, you carry on believing that.......you just can't help yourself can you .. ?

 

Who exactly do you mean by ‘these people? There is a currently a very wide range of people expressing criticism of Israel’s current mass slaughter in Gaza, including some Conservative MPs.
You need to be much more specific when you say ‘these people’. Are you talking about all Muslims? Or a proportion of Muslims who are actively opposed to the existence of Israel? Or all of the people who were on the very diverse London march - somewhere between 300 & 500k, depending on who you believe? Or anyone around the country who has been protesting against the mounting death toll in Gaza? Because these are all very different things. Do you seriously believe that all those people are opposed to western values? And do you actually believe that carpet bombing hundreds of thousands of defenceless civilians is commensurate with western values?

I don’t know how much contact you have with people with left of centre views, but I suspect it’s a lot less than me. Growing up in a family of dockers in Essex, I’ve been around Labour and Trade Union circles since I was a kid in the early sixties; I have a large number of friends both local and all over the country and virtually all of them are liberal/moderate left of centre; most of my many work colleagues in Bradford were likewise. I’ve had numerous conversations with many of those people over the decades (including some Jewish friends) about the Israel/Palestine issue. I would say that most of those people are very critical of many actions of various Israeli governments and their treatment of Palestinians. But never have I heard any of them express support for Hamas terrorism or the belief that Israel should not exist. Tarring everyone who is critical of Israeli government actions with the ‘antisemitic’ brush is nonsense.

 

How many people with liberal/moderate left of centre political views do you actually know or ever have any contact with (other than on here)? I doubt you have any idea what the majority of those people think. You get all your views about them from the right wing press and GB News. You simplistically believe that the vast majority of the country is as insular and narrow minded as you are. They aren’t.

 

That's exactly what the woman on the video has done, can't you see the irony in that?

 

Of course I can. Where did I say anything in defence of her? I simply pointed out that she wasn’t one of the protesters and didn’t actually say what the headline claimed she said.

 

Jeez its like watching that documentary with Tom Moores daughter as you search for an excuse. Your post to Tony alluding to most people don't have views like him, well i've got news for you, most don't have views like you either. People on the left and right of the political spectrum are actually insignificant when it comes to a party being voted into power, its the views of the majority in the centre that make the difference. you know, the ones that have balance in their views and don't just read the Mail or the Guardian for their diatribe.

 

Braverman sacked. Expect an internal civil war within the Tory party now as the reality of hundreds of MPs losing their seats under Sunak starts to slowly sink in. Braverman kept the fringe right happy, thats now gone.

 

Hope she joins the REFORM party now, Sunak just lost a few million more votes now ....

 

Will the last one out please turn out the lights!

 

People marching on the capital flying and promoting the flag of a foreign country is objectionable

 

The protests are fundamentally pro-Hamas and Anti-Semitic. Its evident not just by the placards, chants and interviews with attendees, but also by the numbers in attendance. Assad gases thousands, if not millions of Syrians, and there's nothing of note on the streets to name one example. Its simply down to the fact that one side of this involves Israel that the masses turn out.

The limited extent and speed at which Oct 7th was reported on and then swept away, is astonishing. As if history teaches us nothing. I was always fascinated by how the holocaust could have ever happened and the extent to which an apparently civilised country (countries) could have stooped to such barbarism, but now I know. We're living through a similar mindset again. Although if its possible, Hamas are worse than the Nazis.

 

If only the Conservative party were actually conservative, they'd not be on a path to imploding and giving away the next election to a Labour party that will only make this country worse.

 

I get the impression most of the middle east doesn't give a shiny shite about the Palestinians, merely using the protesting around the world to further their own narratives. Folk protesting in this country not realising that Muslims actually actively fight each other in other parts of the world. The blind following the blind springs to mind.

 

Spot on. I've seen a couple of interviews with British (clearly non Arab) girls, who had no idea why they were there, no idea about the Hamas invasion and genocide in Israel on Oct 7th, and other similar interviews. Several 'they' waving placards about Trans rights being Human rights. Good luck waving those placards in Palestine. Its a playground for ideologues and morons.

 

I have never claimed to represent the views of the majority. But I’m nowhere near as much in the minority as some people on this forum appear to believe. Sure, I’m to the left of centre, but nothing like as far to the left as you seem to think. I support Starmer FFS. I’m basically a Keynesian social democrat who would happily vote LibDem (and have done in the past) if I was living in a constituency where that would better oppose the Tories. I spent a lot of time in the past helping get rid of Militant from the Labour Party; I’ve never been in Momentum or any of the further left elements of the LP.

I’m simply trying to provide some balance to the socially right-leaning views frequently aired on this platform. Quite a few people on here who think their views are centrist are actually well to the right of mainstream. You have to take into account that this is a football supporters forum. Of course there is a wide range of views amongst football supporters but, taken as a whole, they tend heavily towards the socially conservative and only the most blinkered observer would deny that. This forum is most definitely not a representative sample of British voters. Huge swathes of our society have no interest in football, including a large majority on the left. I’m very much an outlier amongst my friends and peers as a person with leftist views who follows football. The composition of this forum is at least 95% male and it’s well established that far more women have socially liberal views than men. So that skews it well to the right for a start.
It’s also a forum based in a run down, post industrial city in the north of England with a very large population of Muslims and a lot of very disaffected white people. So that makes it highly unrepresentative of most political constituencies in this country and worlds away from the more populous South. By pretty much any metric you want to name, this forum is highly unrepresentative of British society as a whole.

My social views are unremarkably mainstream amongst university educated professional people, particularly those working in education, social care, the NHS etc. And that’s not the ‘Islington elite’ beloved of Daily Mail caricature - it’s millions of people around the country and a growing proportion of the electorate, as so many more young people now go into higher education. But, of course, it’s a demographic that is vastly underrepresented on these pages. So, attempting to paint me as some kind of extreme lefty with wildly unrepresentative views doesn’t wash, I’m afraid. It says far more about the limited social contacts of some posters on here than it does about me.

I strongly believe that most intelligent, moderate, centrist people (including most swing voters you correctly highlight) have a more balanced view of the current situation than is reflected on these pages. Of course, like any decent human being, they are appalled by the Hamas terrorist atrocities - that goes without saying. But most also recognise that Israel has not helped itself over the years by its refusal to compromise over Palestinian territorial security, its active promotion of the illegal settlers and now its indiscriminate slaughter in Gaza. But, on these pages, any attempt to add any balance to the ‘Palestinians bad, Israel good’ narrative gets you attacked as an extremist.

I know perfectly well that there were some people on the London march, and elsewhere, who hate Jews and want to see Israel wiped off the map. I unequivocally oppose and denounce those people; any who have carried antisemitic banners or shouted slogans comparing Israel to the Nazis should be identified and prosecuted with the full force of the law. But those people are the minority. Suggestions on these pages that anyone protesting in support of Palestinian rights supports Hamas and wants Israel destroyed are simply nonsense.

 

So that makes them representative of all those supporting Palestinian rights, does it? There are idiots in every sphere of life - that doesn’t make everyone an idiot.

 

I don't believe it does make everyone an idiot, but I do believe the mass ideology within that crowd is anti-Semitic. 'From the River to the Sea' has a very, very clear meaning.

 

But that chant is not representative of the majority supporting Palestinian rights. You are singling out the extreme minority and ascribing their views onto everyone who wants a balanced solution to the decades-old conflict, which is simply wrong. The extremes always make the most noise.