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Prince Andrew

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by JonButterfield, Jan 5, 2022.

  1. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    All is fair in love and law, and lawyers and representatives are entitled to use every possible clause in the rulebook to get their clients off the hook, but in the court of public opinion these guys look like absolute ding-dongs, no?

    Trying to use an agreement cooked up by a deceased, rich, convicted sex offender as a waiver is about as low as you could possibly go isn't it? I mean, he's entitled to try and avoid legal action in the United States, but why don't these boffins understand the aesthetics of this move? It MATTERS.

    And now that the savvy judge in the civil case has spotted a loophole that undermines the loophole they're trying to use (namely that third parties can't use that agreement in another court without permission), it looks like Prince Andrew's attempt to sneak out the back door have failed.

    Let's hope that's the end of the chicanery, and after the civil case is dealt with, Andrew defends himself properly - and honestly - in a criminal trial.
     
  2. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Can not see there ever been a criminal trial unless Maxwell gives evidence and even then not sure there would be
     
  3. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    I guess Prince Andrew really will be sweating on the outcome of the judge's ruling .. despite his medical condition!

    On a serious point, I have a genuine doubt that if the ruling goes against him, he won't face a civil action in a US court. He'll be under serious pressure back at home from his funder and her son to settle the issue before it reaches court. He's already been proved guilty in the court of public opinion in the UK.
     
  4. Nottsy

    Nottsy Squad Player

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    That’s what happens when you use all your wealth and power to avoid trial. Must be hiding something.
     
  5. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Wonder if her price for silence has increased since her deal with Epstein ?
     
  6. 1975citygent

    1975citygent Impact Sub

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    As bad as these alleged crimes are, as far as I am aware no-one actually died, so why should we allow a member of our Royal Family to travel to the "good ol USA to answer these allegations, whatever our view of him is.
    The reason I make this point is because the United States is protecting one of their citizens from answering charges over here regarding causing death by dangerous driving (driving on the wrong side of the road).

    RIP Harry Dunn
     
    Idlebantam likes this.
  7. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Yes. However as you say later in your post I think the barristers are losing sight of the general aesthetics on this case and being tied up in 'winning' without actually clearing his name - if indeed his name is clear.

    The flip side of that issue is if Virginia Giuffre has actually taken the $500k in consideration of not pursuing anyone else for this, is it not actually legally wrong for her to try and civilly sue someone again? That doesn't justify anything illegal that has happened to her but both aspects can be true.

    Personally I'd like the whole damn thing to go to open court and get to the bottom of everyone that was involved, These legal games do little to instill a sense of natural justice around cases such as this,
     
  8. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    No, because she sued Epstein and Maxwell for trafficking her. That has been settled, and has no relevance to the lawsuit against Andrew for raping her.

    She isn't suing anyone 'again'.
     
  9. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    I doubt Maxwell is happy to go down and see those who committed crimes still walk the streets. My guess is she will start naming names. She is unlikely to at present if she is going to appeal her conviction but if that option fails and all avenues are exhausted, that is when she will start to sing.
     
  10. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    So in your eyes what does this paragraph mean....

    The settlement contains a provision releasing “second parties and any other person or entity who could have been included as a potential defendant from all, and all manner of, action and actions of Virginia Roberts, including state or federal, cause and causes of action”.......

    If it doesn't mean to exclude her from suing other third parties who were involved in the alleged crimes? The settlement went wider than just Epstein/Maxwell themselves.
     
  11. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    The judge is about to rule on whether that means anything at all - and from the tone of what was said yesterday, he's likely to rule that it doesn't mean anything at all outside of a private agreement between Epstein and Giuffre.

    Andrew's lawyers have been caught out. Andrew had nothing to do with trafficking Giuffre, by his own admission, so chances are he's not impacted by an agreement about sex trafficking.
     
  12. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    How was this private agreement known about out of interest? How did Prince Andrew and his lawyers know about it's existance?
     
  13. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    Doubt it mate, she would have given names already if she was going to do that.

    Also, as Andrew Neil pointed out, she's 60. If she 'sings' to reduce her sentence from a minimum of 40 years to 20 years, what difference is it going to make for her?

    There's not enough to gain for her.
     
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  14. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    The agreement was the deal that settled the Giuffre v Epstein case. It was public knowledge they had struck some kind of deal. When it was made public, his lawyers tried to use it to get Andrew off the charges. If they had known the exact terms beforehand, they probably wouldn't have tried to rely on it, because that defence got picked apart yesterday.
     
  15. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    I don't think the Epstein settlement was just about trafficking - I don't think they actually stipulate the alleged crime in the document from what I've read. It's been described in the media at least as a settlement for alleged sex-trafficking and sexual-abuse claims. The accuracy of the media explanations are of course debatable.

    Whether they've been caught out or not, the fact we're even discussing it shows that it's not cut and dried and it's therefore a valid question to ask even if it gets thrown out. I would hope it does get set aside purely so we have half a chance of getting closer to the bottom of this horrendous mess. That doesn't change the legal agreements in place though.
     
    #15 Aaron Baker, Jan 5, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2022
  16. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    She didn't name names already because she pleaded not guilty. To name names and plead not guilt is somewhat of a contradiction in itself.

    If she is going to appeal then she needs to remain from the standpoint that she is not guilty. Once she knows there is no way back she will change her tune. Even if she has nothing to gain from it knowing she has been banged up when those who took part in those crimes are walking round free will make her change face.
     
  17. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    Apparently the other reason the settlement agreement won't work is because it says it can't be used in other court cases unless permission is granted by both parties - one is dead, and the other is suing Andrew.

    Permission unlikely at this point :p

    And like you say - good.
     
  18. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    Isn't this ruling also from California and they argued it has no legal standing within New York.
     
  19. JonButterfield

    JonButterfield Star Player
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    I think I did hear that yeah.

    If he settles for a few million, despite being 'innocent' then I say we all sue him for crimes he's innocent of. Quick way to make some cash.
     
  20. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Not so sure about that. Apparently she thinks Epstein was murdered in jail, rather than killing himself. If she thinks he was killed to protect the rich, famous and powerful she might not be keen to suffer the same fate.
     

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