Most liked posts in thread: Pensions

Lol. Most of the country was living on government handouts of some sort last year. It would’ve been interesting if everyone would’ve been shoved onto universal credit instead of furloughing though, the tide would’ve turned then, finding out what it’s really like.

 

I agree with your premise to some extent but that's a hell of a jump to say that only unions could have stopped us sending kids up chimneys.

Unions did assist with all those things but conditions can, and do, change without that particular arrangement.

 

Read my post. I said 'unions and other left of centre campaigners'.

 

Even then. Its ludicrous to place all restrictions that better the conditions of workers on the left, especially when you're talking about improvements from 100 years ago.

 

So who do people recommend for pensions

 

Really? Let's have a list of innovations and significant improvements to working conditions/H&S/holiday, sickness, maternity & paternity benefits/healthcare/ welfare safety net/environment etc that have ever been prompted by the activities of right of centre activists/thinktanks and/or introduced by Tory governments. It'll be a short list.

 

As if it would matter because most of them were so long ago it makes basically no difference.

But wasn't the actual legislation that stopped child chimney sweep which you mentioned brought in under Disraeli? Along with probably the most significant change of industrial Britain, the Factory Act?

In more recent times the Modern Slavery Act probably fits the bill.

You'll probably dismiss them or say that alright the right put them into legislation the left fought for them, which is why its pointless. However the idea that only one side EVER instigated things to make industry safer is ridiculous. Its worth remembering that the left of the 1940s is not the left of today.

 

Of course the technological advances you mention are important.
But your one dimensional view of trades unions is extremely blinkered. The vast majority of what trades unions do is about individual member issues, not pay demands or strikes.
Sick pay, unfair dismissal legislation, job security, decent annual leave, maternity and paternity leave, shorter working hours, health and safety improvements, free healthcare, social housing etc etc are all in place because they were lobbied for by trades unions and implemented into law by Labour governments.

'Affordable transport'! Good grief. Rail and bus transport, gas and electricity charges have skyrocketed since the Tories privatised them.

 

Err, no. I was a NALGO/UNISON shop steward for 25 years, from the mid 80s to 2010 . I think I went on strike about four times in that whole period, all for fully justified reasons. I've absolutely no desire for us to go back to the days of Red Robbo, Scargill, wildcat strikes and restrictive demarcation disputes. But the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Millions of people now suffer from poor job security and poverty pay because they have no effective representation. There has to be a balance, like there is Germany, where Trades Unions are not constantly charicatured as Commie bogey men like they are here.
Yes, our system has evolved so that most of the social protections that originated from the left/centre left are now shared ideals across the central political divide. But large swathes of the Tory Party, in and out of parliament, are well to the right of centrist and don't share those ideals. Most of the MPs in the European Research Group and the Covid Recovery Group are extreme free marketeers who believe in massive deregulation and erosion of workforce rights to foster 'labour market flexibility' - aka hire and fire at will. Given half a chance they would sweep away many of the social gains of the 20th century in a breath. It's naive to believe that these things are set in stone.

 

1. That's because most people don't have the foggiest idea about what most Trades Union work is about. Strikes are the tip of the iceberg. Yes, poor job security was around in the 70s but it's become much worse under the gig economy where there is virtually no collective bargaining or individual representation.

2. No they are not 'done'. There are plenty of influential Tories, in and out of government, who want to see several those things scaled back or dropped altogether. We've already seen legal aid and rights to industrial tribunals eroded. It's naive to believe that the ultra free marketeers won't scale back further protections if they can. One of the biggest reasons they wanted us to leave the EU was to do precisely that, because they knew they couldn't do it whilst those measures were enshrined in the Social Chapter.

 

1) And what are the Unions doing to help the gig economy? Is it nothing?

2) Go on then. Name me 10 Tories who want to scale back things from that list. Don't add new things to it. Specifically those.

 

Everybody should be self employed....end of..!!

 

Most of the companies that employ in the gig economy don't recognise unions. That's a big part of the problem.
Since coming into office in 2010, Rees-Mogg, Raab, Cash, Truss, Patel and a whole heap of other ultra Thatcherites have often made statements about reducing 'onerous' obligations on employers in the name of 'workforce flexibility'. They don't always spell it out in precise terms, but those are the things they mean. That's why they always objected to the Social Chapter so strongly.

 

1) Exactly. So the modern issues are not solved by unions which is why we have to recall discussions from 50 or 100 years ago to discuss their relevance.

2) So none of them actually object to what we were talking about but if you just project those objections onto them it works just as well. Reducing onerous obligations does not equal removing maternity pay.

 

most reps, probably not your wife, do it as an excuse not to have to do their own work. Courses, meetings etc anything but work

 

He's like a dog with a bone when he starts lol......

 

Wife does it voluntary although the courses were paid for. I wouldnt last a couple of weeks, I've no patience dealing with numpties.

 

Does she do it in her own time?

 

Yeah, she has to do quite a bit at home, like prep work for individual cases.