Pensions

All these were probably partly true in history.

Unfortunately the story now probably ends with....Joe has unfortunately been fired from work because he called the girl with punk hair "she" rather than "they"

 

Lol. Most of the country was living on government handouts of some sort last year. It would’ve been interesting if everyone would’ve been shoved onto universal credit instead of furloughing though, the tide would’ve turned then, finding out what it’s really like.

 

I have no doubt the furlough scheme was a godsend to many companies, particularly in the hospitality and travel industries, but equally I have no doubt that it was massively abused by companies who didn't need it. I know things had to be done quickly but thousands of companies who thrived during the pandemic also received grants and rate rebates. Free money some described it as.

 

But it didn't , and what you got was a socialist type hand out paid for by the taxpayers (workers) so what's the problem..?

 

Excellent summation but you'll never get that past our comrades...

 

But without the trades unions and other left of centre campaigners, we'd still be working 12 hour days, six days a week, with virtually no holidays, no sick pay, maternity leave etc or still sending kids up chimneys.

Likewise, we'd never have had an NHS, or decent environmental and H&S standards. These things are never given up freely by businesses - they have to be fought for. And they are invariably opposed by the Tory Party, until they become so accepted as part of civilised life that they wouldn't dare remove them.
You only need to look at the likes of Amazon, Uber, etc to see how mega rich companies exploit their workforce when there is no workforce representation to fight for their rights.

I'm not anti- capitalist. I believe in a mixed economy. Command economies don't work long term, although there are certain tasks that are best performed by the public sector. There have to be incentives for people to invest and turn a reasonable profit. But there also have to be regulations to prevent exploitation and excessive inequality.
We'd have even better living standards if the higher echlons of our society hadn't been on investment strike for several decades - preferring to squirrel away their riches in offshore tax havens rather than pay UK tax on them or reinvest them in our economy. Why do you think the Tory government has always refused to join in with EU initiatives to cut down on tax avoidance? Because most of them, or their spouses, are some of the biggest offenders.

 

But we're not , we have gone far enough, workers today have it all and more besides and good on 'em but it has to be paid for by efficient productivity and paid for with funds that investors have risked everything on including their property and savings etc.. I know i'm wasting my breath but there you go...

 

So back to pensions ……

 

I agree with your premise to some extent but that's a hell of a jump to say that only unions could have stopped us sending kids up chimneys.

Unions did assist with all those things but conditions can, and do, change without that particular arrangement.

 

Read my post. I said 'unions and other left of centre campaigners'.

 

Even then. Its ludicrous to place all restrictions that better the conditions of workers on the left, especially when you're talking about improvements from 100 years ago.

 

So who do people recommend for pensions

 

Really? Let's have a list of innovations and significant improvements to working conditions/H&S/holiday, sickness, maternity & paternity benefits/healthcare/ welfare safety net/environment etc that have ever been prompted by the activities of right of centre activists/thinktanks and/or introduced by Tory governments. It'll be a short list.

 

As if it would matter because most of them were so long ago it makes basically no difference.

But wasn't the actual legislation that stopped child chimney sweep which you mentioned brought in under Disraeli? Along with probably the most significant change of industrial Britain, the Factory Act?

In more recent times the Modern Slavery Act probably fits the bill.

You'll probably dismiss them or say that alright the right put them into legislation the left fought for them, which is why its pointless. However the idea that only one side EVER instigated things to make industry safer is ridiculous. Its worth remembering that the left of the 1940s is not the left of today.

 

That's certainly true. The 1940s left was far more Stalinist/ Leninist/ Communist/ in thrall to Russia than it is today. Aside from the tiny loopy left in the SWP, most people on the left of centre nowadays believe in a mixed economy, with the state playing a bigger role in the delivery of public services (health, social care, utilities, public transport etc) and the private sector doing everything else.
It hard to compare left and right in the 19th century because Marxism and Fabianism hadn't happened and the Whig and Tory parties didn't split on left-right lines so aren't comparable to modern day British politics. Certainly in the 20th century, all the positive social changes came from the left and most were bitterly opposed by the right.
And there are plenty in the current government who would be only too keen to water down employment rights, H&S and environmental standards etc given half a chance, in the name of a 'flexible economy' and 'cutting red tape. We've already seen them renege on the promises they made about maintaining EU-level food standards in future trade deals and they'd drop many more protections if they thought they could get away with it.

 

Of course the technological advances you mention are important.
But your one dimensional view of trades unions is extremely blinkered. The vast majority of what trades unions do is about individual member issues, not pay demands or strikes.
Sick pay, unfair dismissal legislation, job security, decent annual leave, maternity and paternity leave, shorter working hours, health and safety improvements, free healthcare, social housing etc etc are all in place because they were lobbied for by trades unions and implemented into law by Labour governments.

'Affordable transport'! Good grief. Rail and bus transport, gas and electricity charges have skyrocketed since the Tories privatised them.

 

But this is the point isn't all of it is true but it's so long ago it's as irrelevant to the current time and Disraeli is to the modern conservatives. Blair hated the unions almost as much as Thatcher.

You seem to be stuck in the glory days of the unions but it isn't 1975 any more (let alone the more problematic union times of 78/79 when Labour were actually in charge). Our system has evolved to give us all of these things as a centrist ideal across all parties, rather than just the them being the ideals of the left,