Pensions

Err, no. I was a NALGO/UNISON shop steward for 25 years, from the mid 80s to 2010 . I think I went on strike about four times in that whole period, all for fully justified reasons. I've absolutely no desire for us to go back to the days of Red Robbo, Scargill, wildcat strikes and restrictive demarcation disputes. But the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Millions of people now suffer from poor job security and poverty pay because they have no effective representation. There has to be a balance, like there is Germany, where Trades Unions are not constantly charicatured as Commie bogey men like they are here.
Yes, our system has evolved so that most of the social protections that originated from the left/centre left are now shared ideals across the central political divide. But large swathes of the Tory Party, in and out of parliament, are well to the right of centrist and don't share those ideals. Most of the MPs in the European Research Group and the Covid Recovery Group are extreme free marketeers who believe in massive deregulation and erosion of workforce rights to foster 'labour market flexibility' - aka hire and fire at will. Given half a chance they would sweep away many of the social gains of the 20th century in a breath. It's naive to believe that these things are set in stone.

 

Should have know you were a rep - nobody else speaks so glowingly about them except people who have poured their time into the unions.

People suffered from poor job security and poor pay and conditions even in the Unions heyday. It's not new and it's not linked directly to the left right divide otherwise the winter of discontent wouldn't have happened under a Labour government.

And there is a balance but harping back to things like Sick pay, unfair dismissal legislation, decent annual leave, maternity and paternity leave free healthcare are now irrelevant. They're done, there's no discussion about them, we might as well bring up the printing press!

And it's okay saying that some of the Tory party believe in it, I'm sure they do but so do some of the Blairites in the Labour party and some of the rest would have us back to the minors strikes!

 

1. That's because most people don't have the foggiest idea about what most Trades Union work is about. Strikes are the tip of the iceberg. Yes, poor job security was around in the 70s but it's become much worse under the gig economy where there is virtually no collective bargaining or individual representation.

2. No they are not 'done'. There are plenty of influential Tories, in and out of government, who want to see several those things scaled back or dropped altogether. We've already seen legal aid and rights to industrial tribunals eroded. It's naive to believe that the ultra free marketeers won't scale back further protections if they can. One of the biggest reasons they wanted us to leave the EU was to do precisely that, because they knew they couldn't do it whilst those measures were enshrined in the Social Chapter.

 

1) And what are the Unions doing to help the gig economy? Is it nothing?

2) Go on then. Name me 10 Tories who want to scale back things from that list. Don't add new things to it. Specifically those.

 

Everybody should be self employed....end of..!!

 

Err, no they shouldn't. Lord save us from self righteous self employed people who have a permanent chip on their shoulder about those who choose the relative security of being employed.

 

Funny talking about Unions, the wife did a training course last week as part of her union rep work. You have to have skin as thick as a rhino, dealing with managers with no idea how to manage and staff who are as thick as pig shit. Told her not to waste her time but she wouldn't listen.

 

Most of the companies that employ in the gig economy don't recognise unions. That's a big part of the problem.
Since coming into office in 2010, Rees-Mogg, Raab, Cash, Truss, Patel and a whole heap of other ultra Thatcherites have often made statements about reducing 'onerous' obligations on employers in the name of 'workforce flexibility'. They don't always spell it out in precise terms, but those are the things they mean. That's why they always objected to the Social Chapter so strongly.

 

Yup, it's often a thankless task.
When local authority mental health services were forcibly merged with the NHS back in the early noughties, I was tasked with representing the LA staff who were affected by the merger. From years of stewarding in the LA I was used to having frank, open and honest meetings with managers on a basis of mutual respect. You said what you thought and so did they. I soon found out that the attitude of most NHS managers was totally different. It was "We say jump; you say, how high?" They couldn't cope at all with being asked direct questions about why they were doing things certain ways and why they thought that everything should default to their way of doing things when this was supposed to be a merger rather than a takeover. It was bloody hard going.

 

Which only applies to molly coddled public sector though..

 

1) Exactly. So the modern issues are not solved by unions which is why we have to recall discussions from 50 or 100 years ago to discuss their relevance.

2) So none of them actually object to what we were talking about but if you just project those objections onto them it works just as well. Reducing onerous obligations does not equal removing maternity pay.

 

most reps, probably not your wife, do it as an excuse not to have to do their own work. Courses, meetings etc anything but work

 

Would I be right in assuming that you aren't a Tory voter?

 

He's like a dog with a bone when he starts lol......

 

You are bang right there mate. Having said that, it is that "dog with a bone" description that would make him a good union rep. Management, in particular modern day management find it difficult dealing with people like that. A lot of modern day management have not come through the system but gone onto higher education up to graduate level. From a qualification point of view they degree educated but short on life experience and common sense.

 

Wife does it voluntary although the courses were paid for. I wouldnt last a couple of weeks, I've no patience dealing with numpties.

 

Does she do it in her own time?

 

Yeah, she has to do quite a bit at home, like prep work for individual cases.

 

Utter bullshit. Ever tried working in a children's home; or an old people's home; or a psych ward; or gone onto Thorpe Edge estate to remove a child from abusive parents; or sectioned a person with acute psychosis - whilst waiting several hours for police and ambulance backup; or sat with an acutely depressed person for hours, trying to persuade them not to kill themself?

Thought not.

I've done all of the last three many times. And no amount of money would have persuaded me to do any of the first three.

Mollycoddled. You haven't got a clue.

 

Dead right I haven't, I'd leave that to those that 'chose' to...