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Owen Paterson.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Rogered Tart, Nov 4, 2021.

  1. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Sigh, the Labour Party are going to do it again aren't they? They're going to miss the point and lose this massive opportunity.

    The scandal at the minute isn't the expenses or the technicalities, talking about Johnsons flat or his holiday just pushes it into the future. It's an accusation that is to an extent old news but isn't yet solid enough to make new news.

    The scandal is the vote! Focus on the vote and ONLY the vote.

    This is the opportunity to drive a wedge down the Conservatives between the ministers who forced the result and the backbenchers who didn't want to vote that way. This is where you can get the Red Wall voters to ask questions on whether their representatives can be trusted to vote in their best interests or even on their own morals and the individuals involved can't defend it.

    Talking about Kathryn Stone (somebody none of the public know or care about) or wider sleeze might make things uncomfortable in Westminster but it's not going to get the public engaged because they already think politicians as a whole are sleazy anyway.
     
    bantamdave41, Hoochy-Min and RCarol like this.
  2. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    If you can, have a listen on catch-up to this morning's Today programme on Radio 4. John Major gives a lengthy interview to Nick Robinson on a whole load of stuff, not just the Morison fiasco, concerning Johnson's premiership. Major trashes him. It's ruthless and I've never heard a former PM speak about a current party leader or PM in such terms ever before.

    It was around the 8.15pm mark. I suspect there will be wider coverage of this over the weekend.

    The PM's get out of jail card might well be that the opposition won't have a clue on what to do.
     
    YungNath, Hoochy-Min, RCarol and 2 others like this.
  3. Edinmiarse

    Edinmiarse Fringe Player

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    They know exactly what to do and it has little to do with Paterson. It's all about damaging Johnson and the Tory party. Prior to this episode they have got away with little damage but it's cumulative, eventually mud sticks and it will be impossible for them to wash it off. That is precisely what happened to the Major government.
     
  4. Rogered Tart

    Rogered Tart Regular Starter
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    That was his get out of jail card at the last election as well. I stand by my original comments some while back that Johnson did not win the last General election, Labour lost it. And they're gonna do the same again.
     
    RCarol likes this.
  5. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    The last GE was certainly in part lost by Labour since few could imagine Corbyn in No 10 although it was certainly influenced by the prospect of another referendum on the Brexit deal.

    However, I recognise that Johnson is a very good campaigner and is great at engaging people where it matters with many, in their hearts. However as a PM, he has to deal with the head rather than the heart, and that's where he falls down. (I'll ignore the sleaze and cronyism and his lack of integrity for this comparison!) The current Labour Party continues to focus on the electorate's heads and Starmer simply has no idea how to engage with the electorate's hearts.

    Being realistic, Johnson needs to be looking over his shoulder at his 'friends' behind him on the Conservative benches rather than worrying too much about his opponents on the opposition benches!
     
    Bronco, Rogered Tart and Aaron Baker like this.
  6. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    No!! That's what they always do and (a)They do it badly and (b) It doesn't accumulate in the way Guardian reading, dyed in the wool Labour supporters think it does. It wears people down rather than building up.

    Sperate out Johnson from the backbenchers, divide the party and they can build momentum. Read the quotes from the backbench tories, they're on the verge if open rebellion so feed it and make it worse. Treating they all as "Tory sleeze" drives them together.
     
  7. Dennis

    Dennis Captain
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    Targeting the Tory party and regarding them all in the same vein will simply draw the Tory party together. That's what they're good at when attacked collectively. The Tory party grandees are brilliant at protecting their party.

    Better to reinforce the differences between the Tory 'nobs' at the top of the party - Eton educated, at the heart of sleaze and cronyism - and tne 'oiks' - recent MP's, red wall seat MP's, those who have fallen out with the PM and his inner circle. And Starmer might just have a chance.

    ps The distinction between nobs and oiks isn't of my making. It's a phrase used by a couple of back benchers and a former minister in the past few days.
     
    Aaron Baker likes this.
  8. Edinmiarse

    Edinmiarse Fringe Player

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    Of course you go for the big fish, not much use going for the red wall minnows. If you go for the 'nobs' at the top of the party you damage the Tory party as a whole. I think that is fairly obvious.
     
  9. Edinmiarse

    Edinmiarse Fringe Player

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  10. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    What a load of bullshit. This wasn't a 'mistake'. It was a calculated attempt to scupper the parliamentary scrutiny process to get Paterson off the hook and avoid Johnson's own misdemeanours being investigated.

    BBC News - Owen Paterson: Minister Stephen Barclay expresses regret over vote
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59213255
     
  11. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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  12. Offcomedun

    Offcomedun Important Player
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    Hoochy-Min likes this.
  13. Edin Nowhere

    Edin Nowhere Impact Sub
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    Boris didn't bother to turn up to the debate in parliament today, instead is has been pictured in a hospital without a mask, so that has got everyone wound up instead.

    To be fair to him he knows how to divert attention from what people should be looking at re the debate in parliament, and get everyone upset about something like masks elsewhere when he has probably been tested.
     
  14. Storck

    Storck Regular Starter

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    Don’t think he ever attends debates set by the opposition.

    I can imagine the moans if he had cancelled the visit for a debate that can not do anything
     
  15. Aaron Baker

    Aaron Baker Impact Sub

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    Nope, I don't think anyone believes it is, but the trick is actually proving it. Insinuation doesn't work any more.

    All they need to do is ban second jobs....but nobody suggests or promises it. Why? Because if they any of them ever got into power they'd want to benefit from it as well?
     
    Bronco likes this.
  16. Hoochy-Min

    Hoochy-Min Squad Player

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    This should bring this lot down, but it won't.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    How and RCarol like this.
  17. Clity

    Clity Fringe Player

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    Brexit gave these people license to lie and deceive. It worked before why not now? Its all the same cronies.
     
  18. Craven Cottager

    Craven Cottager Squad Player

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    Angela Rayner’s opinion of the Tories has been proved to be accurate after all.
     
    YungNath, Hoochy-Min and Offcomedun like this.
  19. ahar964

    ahar964 Squad Player
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    Did he mention Edwina?
     

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